Traffic Calming Alternatives and/or Fighting Against Misuse of 4-Way Stop Sign...

[Zeigh]

Hello,

I need some alternative suggestions about sound traffic engineering ways to calm traffic speeds in a private community and/or fight against a 4-way stop sign intersection planned...

My property owners association has announced that they will be installing 4-way stop signs at an intersection. Our community is in a rural area (wide setbacks from the roadway and clear visibility in all directions), considered private property, very low traffic volume, has coded gates at all entrances, and no surrounding traffic is able to use the roads as a shortcut. If the Manual on Uniformed Traffic Control Devices was used, yield signs as are present now would be the standard at this intersection, as well as the surrounding 25 MPH speed limit would also be increased to 35-40 MPH per the 85th percentile guidelines.

This intersection originally had such stop signs a few years ago, but were replaced with yield signs on two directions of travel due to the increased complaints by property owners. The current POA Board has stated the reason for this pending change is because of their perception of speeding, near accidents, and their legal responsibility to the community. Speed bumps were ruled out due to the higher resulting maintenance on the chip-seal roadway, there is little money for a roundabout, and any lighted signaling devices would disturb the surrounding neighbors. As usual, stop signs are the cheapest and realistically the most ineffective solution to such a larger issue of "out dated thinking".

Before I rally up a petition of neighbors to block such a traffic control change, I should at least investigate alternative solutions to the perceived problem of speeding and/or safety at this intersection. Does anyone have any suggestions or at least ideas for further research. BTW, I am an activist for the National Motorist Association, so if anyone appreciates sound traffic engineering for safety and efficiency, then it is me!


Thanks,
Dr. Z.

 

[miningman]

Sounds like a perfect location for a roundabout

 

[GeoPaveTraffic]

Agreed, a roundabout is the best option. Other options are speed humps (not bumps) and chicanes(sp?). If a roundabout is too expensive and speed humps unecepatble due to precepitions; then chicanes are likely your best bet. I've seen them work very well and if you use saw horse types, they can be moved for snow removal, maintainence, etc.

Mike Lambert

 

[Debaser]

Given, if I've read this right, this is a private gated community then I'd be tempted to use the power of embarassment, stick up some speed cameras and place 'wanted' posters of any cars shown going over the speed limit, or issue them at regular community events.

More serious answer would be, depending on the size of the junction, either a roundabout, or perhaps a mini-roundabout on a raised junction table, which has the advantage of catering for peds by creating at-grade crossings (the raised area to extend slightly further than a car's length down each arm. such that the first waiting vehicle is on the level - will need to take into account delivery/refuse vehicles).

 

[Zeigh]

I know that there are allot of variables, but does anyone know what a roundabout might cost on a private road intersection with flat land, no vegetation, chipseal paved, and medium duty foundation?

 

[Zeigh]

Sorry, no attachment. If you are interested, use these coordinates in your favorite mapping program:

Lat 34.693097°
Long -112.251990°

 

[civilman72]

There are plenty of studies that show speeds increasing between stop signs; motorists will try to make up for lost time.

Other studies will show that there are actually more accidents at four-way stops.

You should search through FHWA and the MUTCD research files along with their forums/chat rooms to find these tidbits and more.

When you show the Board that installing stop signs acutally decreases safety it should change their opinion.

 

[Zeigh]

Thanks for that advice, but I have already found a wealth of information via the National Motorist Association, Institute of Transportation Engineers, and more. Most likely you can already figure it out, but the biggest problem here is educating the public and correcting out-of-date thinking. My goal in this post is really just to get the opinions of the people that truly know what efficient traffic engineering means in the real world and possible alternatives the the perceived speeding problem of a community.


Thanks,
Dr. Z.

 

[civilman72]

What happened when you presented this information to the Board - did they ignore (or doubt the validity of) the data?

Roundabouts are generally used to increase the capacity of an intersection or to address non-standard intersections (i.e. intersection with five roads, frontage roads, etc.). If I'm a homeowner, spending money on a roundabout (which is expensive) would seem like overkill for this perceived problem and for the remoteness of this area.

 

[Debaser]

I'll have to back out of this discussion. I can usually adjust for the majority of you driving on the wrong side or your having different traffic laws and behaviour, but for obvious reasons (small island/lots of people) I've never had to deal with anything nearly so remote.

 

[Zeigh]

I am afraid that no Board presentation was able to be done, as this was an unannounced issue on the meeting agenda and a surprise rush job to get it voted on with as little opposition as possible. HA, one of the oldest political tactics there is! Unfortunately, the bylaws of this situation state that there is no petition that can be done, even though the majority of the members are opposed to the stop signs. Equally, very few people actually stopped at the signs before and treating them like the yield signs they were turned into. I expect the same again. It is a silly pingpong volley at the whim of the current Board.

I will indeed make a presentation when they will allow it, but most likely it will have to wait for a Board member reelection to do so. It is elected officials like this that make a traffic engineers job more complicated than it needs to be. Oh, not to mention confusing local drivers!


Thanks,
Dr. Z.

 

[brandonbw]

I hope if a roundabout is put in you don't have what they do here in Los Angeles, and put a 4 way stop with the roundabout. Talk about confusing and pointless.

B+W Engineering and Design
Los Angeles Civil Engineer and Structural Engineer

http://bwengr.com

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