Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills 39

[KernOily]

Good afternoon guys. I would like to hear from you supervisors and lead engineers on your ideas on training young engineers on soft skills. As you all know, the most difficult and most frustrating part by far of the real working world is working with other people. Also, as you all know, being technically proficient will only get you so far in the world.
In engineering school, students are largely isolated from this until perhaps their senior design seminar during which they are put on a small team to develop a project. Upon graduation, they get out in the real world and find out pretty quick that real life in industry ain’t too much like college, and one finds oneself unprepared for this reality thus forcing the learning of soft skills by hard knocks and OJT.

Some example “soft skills” might be these (a short list):
• How to communicate effectively with others
• How to select the best communication vehicle for a message, e.g. email, verbal, phone call, etc.
• How to manage your supervisor
• How to get work done by people over whom you have no direct reporting authority
• How to know when to cc your boss on emails and when you don’t need to
• How to work with other people who have communication styles different from your own

Just wondering how you all have managed this, if at all. Maybe hard knocks is the only way? I guess I could buy them all a copy of “How to Win Friends and Influence People” and The Golden Rule, as a starting point. I might still do that.

Thanks guys! Pete

 

[berkshire]

playswow
It is not a case of adapting your situation to survive. Whilst the younger generation has NEVER not had the items I mentioned and most likely would not know what to do without them, the fact is that these tools come easily to hand for them. The hand calculation you were disparaging earlier was just about all we had, the closest thing to the automation we have today was the 10 key calculator and the slide rule. Non the less, the younger generation now comes in being able to use these tools from grade school on, but in the process loses A respect for hierarchy and basic manners , this is what is taught in soft skills. Now this is nothing new Shakespeare was complaining about it in his plays in the 1500s
B.E.

You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.

 

[Leftwow]

Your so called "hierarchy" is based on pride nothing more... If you can't use a computer good luck on keeping a job.

 

[Leftwow]

And about the guy that said sensitive much. LOL at that. This whole arguement started from old guys who are butt hurt about Junior engineers being technologically capable.

 

[itdepends]

Playswow thank you for giving an example of a deficiency in "Soft Skills"

As a chem eng/metallurgist the first part of any answer I give starts with "It Depends"

 

[MacGyverS2000]

Funny, I didn't read the rest of this thread until responding to Playswow in another thread... it appears my comments there about arrogance were well-founded after all, not just generalized statements. Soft skills or not, if an engineer walks into a meeting with that kind of an attitude, they don't hang around the company long.

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[MacGyverS2000]

Back to the OT... I disagree (to some degree) with fel3's assertion that the current gen "seems to value relationships far more than career advancement". I don't like working more than 40 hours a week... it's a slippery slope that company owners/managers are all too often happy to use to their advantage. Set a line in the sand, and if you go past it, there is some form of reasonable compensation.

I value my family (and alone) time, but I do not stop learning. That said, I also attempt to limit my self-learning time to an amount that won't interfere with the bigger priority, family and ME. I wouldn't call that a failing, I would call it learning to prioritize and setting reasonable boundaries.

I don't fault someone (young or old) for walking out of the door when the clock hits 40 hours, as long a I respect the amount of work they've put in during those 40 hours. Some leeway should be given for the team, so big projects aren't left languishing over the weekend, but that should not be a common practice (and that goes back to earlier threads about companies biting off more than they can chew, forcing the workforce to take up the slack). Some are driven to work 80 hours a week (my brother did that for many, many years... and stopped when he realized the effect it was having on his family). That's not me.


Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[moltenmetal]

MacGyver: amen. My job as project manager is to organize things so that everyone can work 40 hours per week and the project still progresses as planned. Yes, there are hiccups, but if they are more than occasional they are not hiccups but rather a failure to plan or to set realistic expectations. Many organizations are addicted to self-sacrifice, and confuse productivity with hour-burning. It helps to be paid for results rather than reimbursably by the hour- that helps you to know the difference!

As a recovered workaholic I know that excessive work is an addiction, and like most addictions its autocatalytic.

As to the assertion that this generation sees more value in relationships than in advancement, I'd call bollocks on that. People still value both, and which they value varies more from person to person than from generation to generation by FAR.

 

[weldstan]

Back to the OP. Communication skills are paramount in Engineering or any other profession. Oral communication (Speech)courses should be mandated for all Engineering majors. Face to face conversations in meetings, with supervisors, with colleagues and customers are inevitable.

The written skills of many Engineers, both young and old, also need honing.

 

[BraunP]

Just and interesting question, does working more hours make you more productive? or are we just working more hours to say we are working more hours?

As a young engineer mid 20's), I would rather be more efficient than work more hours. Where I work, I am given deadlines, I meet all the deadlines and only work 40 hours a week, no more, no less (I wish I could work less, but company policy states I cant leave even if all my work is done).
to respond to tygerdawg:

white-beards: For all the older generation of engineers. I take what they say with questions, even though you have more years on me, does not mean you know the answer. I have been in many situations where I asked "why" to the senior engineer, and the only answer I got was " because that is how we do it". I don't know about you, but as an engineer shouldn't that answer bug you.

Technology/facebook: you are making an assumption on an entire generation on just the few vocal people on facebook. That is upsetting.

google: As for the internet/technology. Why not use it. why memorize logs/arithmetic when you have almost all knowledge at your finger tips. Saves space in the brain. Now don't get me wrong, you should know where the math comes from, the way I know the computer is right, is because I have a general idea of what the number should be. if I get a number that is far from what I was expecting then I go through and double check everything. I feel it is a way to get the solution quicker.

teamwork: yup we do it a lot. we are taught that no matter what you do, you need a team. Even look at the solo engineer. he might design the part, but who makes the part" who assembles the part? who sells the part? it takes a team to get something to market or even fix a problem.

Padded playgrounds: because of the way I grew up, I have not experiences padded playgrounds and helicopter parents. As for the bike helmet, they are do saves lives. I am not sure why you added that one.

entitlement: This is something I can rant on for a long time and not on the same side as you. But from my own experience, If I did not earn it, I dont get it. That simple.

dedication and loyalty: the company is not loyal to you, so why should you be loyal to them. If the business starts going down, guess what, expected to be canned. I was let go from a company I worked for, for about 3 years, when they hit hard times, it was me and another engineer who was there for 15 years. Company hit hard times, let us go. So where is the loyalty?

Technology/fear: if you know what the technologies does, why should you have fear? Why not push the boundaries of the technology. if you don't try, you don't learn. If you fail, then you learn more.

mobile phones: I have pretty much more recorded knowledge at my finger tips. is that really a bad thing to instantly look up information that I need to do my job? its a lot faster then trying to flip through a book. you don't even need to find the book. Also with this should come with some basic internet searching knowledge on what is a reliable and unreliable source ( which is taught in school).

Zombies: depending on the location you live in will really determine on whether or not you live. in a city area, you are dead, more of the country area, higher chance of living.

I have had to listen to many people say how my generation is going to mess things up and all that jazz. Which honestly is pretty aggravating. but that is my 2 sense.

As with the original post. After I finished collage, I see that I should have taken a few communication classes. It would have helped.

 

[truckandbus]

The Value of Soft Skills

I had an engineer start working for me straight from school. We also had a purchasing agent who would come by the engineering office every 3 or 4 months with a list of components that for one reason or another appeared to contain duplicate vendor part numbers. The purchasing agent would ask for help sorting this out so I would assign this new engineer to do this. New engineer couldn't undersand why the purchaing agent was not smart enough to figure this out on his own, why he had to waste his time helping, not what he got a degree for, who cares if he orders the same part under a different part number and so on.

"Engineers need to make their documentation clear to the end users. somehow we are making this purhcasing agents difficult; help him out and fix it" - ehich he begrudingly did, and did again 3 months after that and after that.

Fast forward a year - new engineer releases a design, gets into production and doesn't work. Needs a new component. Who is the purchasing agent for the componet? The guy new engineer helps out every 3 months. New component gets ordered, expedited in next day (instead of usual leadtime), without the usual 'engineering screwed up' fanfare the typically accompanied such events.

The look on new engineer's face was priceless - at that moment he understood the value of building good relationships

 

[MacGyverS2000]

white-beards: For all the older generation of engineers. I take what they say with questions, even though you have more years on me, does not mean you know the answer. I have been in many situations where I asked "why" to the senior engineer, and the only answer I got was " because that is how we do it". I don't know about you, but as an engineer shouldn't that answer bug you.

For many of us, it does. But what many of the white-beards and few of the greenhorns know, however, is the "because that is how we do it" answer does not necessarily mean "I don't know"... it often means "we are helpless to change it due to circumstances well beyond our pay grade". In other words, "management said so". If management wants it that way, despite what the engineers support, you do it management's way (at least if you want to continue being employed).

Hindsight is 20/20, and the inexperienced don't know what they don't know. The wise will realize this fact and listen/learn. The unwise will sneer down their noses at the "old codgers who are too stupid to be here." I've related the story before, so I won't do it again, but I sat (uncomfortably) by while a young coworker proclaimed (at length and in a very loud voice) to me how a current design was piss poor in umpteenth ways. Of course, the original designer was sitting two cubes away, let him rant, then proceeded to inform him of how the decisions that were made long ago were still affecting the current designs. the sun does shine on a dog's butt once a day, and sometimes a greenhorn full of piss and vinegar will have a groundbreaking idea... but it's tough to recognize it when they're so full of themselves they think all of the old ideas are bunk without understanding WHY the old ideas have lasted so long. Arrogance. It's either lost by experience, or it's beaten out of you.

google: As for the internet/technology. Why not use it. why memorize logs/arithmetic when you have almost all knowledge at your finger tips. Saves space in the brain. Now don't get me wrong, you should know where the math comes from, the way I know the computer is right, is because I have a general idea of what the number should be. if I get a number that is far from what I was expecting then I go through and double check everything. I feel it is a way to get the solution quicker.

I don't believe anyone is saying ignore technology, but you seem to be missing the point. You admit you have a general idea of what the number should be, which means you understand the foundations of the calculation. This is what we mean. Without an understanding of the foundation, the numbers coming out of a computer are meaningless. Having a sense of value matters. More and more often the white-beards are finding employees who do NOT have the proper foundation, so they are making mistakes that are not caught early on. Entering the diameter of rebar in inches rather than millimeters will lead to erroneous results... but without a sense of what the final number should be, that's easily missed by a greenhorn. Use the computer... but use it responsibly, and understand what it's telling you. That's all that's being asked for.



And every generation is aggravated by the one before... and will be aggravated by the one after. cycle of life, I wouldn't let it get you down. You'll be at the other end of the rope one day, and then it will make a certain amount of sense. It comes with experience

Other than that, I tend to agree with most of your other points.

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[BraunP]

Now that you have cleared up the technology one, we are in agreement. It might just be me that does it and you have experienced a lot of people that just listen to the computer. I personally have not seen that with myself and other people I worked with in my generation.

with the whole, "thats how we do it", when I asked why, the senior engineer and the coworkers where not able to answer that. so I saw it as a, we are unwilling to change because this works and we are too lazy to look into other ways. I really enjoy learning and understanding why things are they way they are. I can not just accept " thats how we do it" because I see that as we have given up. now if you can explain why we do it that way, even if its as simple as " management said so" then that is an answer, that an answer I will enjoy, but still an answer.

as for the the young engineer and arrogance, I think I have a good idea where that came from. In school, we were taught we (engineers) are the best. we make the world spin, with out us, the world crumbles. So match that with a 20's mind set. Egos will get inflated really quickly.

Maybe all of this was just from aggravation about my generalization and people assuming I will follow suit. which I hope I am not.

as for when I get older and have the younger generation aggravated at me, better practices my yelling of "GET OFF MY LAWN" =)

 

[Leftwow]

I can't agree with the book thing braunp. As a junior engineer, I refer to my books... after all, the books are non-negotiable. 50% of our job is arguing.

 

[BraunP]

Question Playswow,

I could argue about the books being non-negotiable, they do put out revisions and change values, but that is just me being a pain in the butt =). I do have books on my desk also, but I have found its a lot faster to get the info from the internet than from the book. I feel the quicker you get the info, the sooner you can finish a project and move on.

 

[testing]

after all, the books are non-negotiable.

How do you figure?

 

[Leftwow]

I've noticed a few things as a Junior engineer. The faster I put out the projects, the more parameters I have overlooked. I would rather be cautious and slow, not to make a mistake than to rush out a project to keep the PM's happy.

Books are non-negotiable because you can use them as a solid resource (like the aisc code) rather than say "well I looked this up on the internet".

 

[Leftwow]

I also am still in the fundamental stage of my learning so, the books have a lot of construction and design information in them as well. Plug and chug will not make me a better engineer.

 

[KernOily]

OP here. Guys thanks for the replies. This turned into a stream-of-consciousness, which I dig as much as anyone, but to get back to my original question: what I've distilled thus far from the above is this, from truckandbus:
I set the expectation early that the soft skills are needed

Go over the org chart to identify people they can trust and go to and those they can't

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Review and edit their emails/memos and explain why changes are needed and why word choices matter until they can create a decent email/memo on their own

​

Assign benign tasks early on to confirm 'they get it' before assigning more significant tasks

​

I've also compiled a list of 'what they don't teach you in school' articles that I pass down occasionally

​

One-on-one feedback sessions monthly that are not project specific but rather focus on the soft skills

Thanks for the hard info brother; exactly what I was looking for.

My challenge is to make S.M.A.R.T. goals out of the above that the younglings can use to know they are moving in the right direction and to help me gauge their improvement as their mentor/lead.

 

[GregLocock]

"Go over the org chart to identify people they can trust and go to and those they can't"

That struck me as a potentially dangerous and unwise bit of advice.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

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[ZDR1985]

I wonder what the 18th century engineers during their time talk about 19th century engineers. I believe they also feel the same way what those 19th century engineers feel now about 20th century engineers.

Admit it or not, we learned everything from working, from our experiences on every project. We grow old and we get better.