Transferring PE 1

[NYCeng]

I am currently applying for a PE licence in the state of New York. I have already obtained Chartered Engineer (CEng) accreditation in the UK and Chartered Professional Engineer (CPEng) accreditation in Australia. Despite these both being equivalents of the US PE status the examining board is telling me that I will need to pass two Fundamentals of Engineering (FE) examinations and then two Professional Engineering (PE) examinations as well as having all my academic achievements and work experience checked and verified! This is a major inconvenience in terms of time, money, and effort - does anyone have any experience in sucessfully obtaining exemptions from the FE and PE examinations when applying for PE licensure in the US?

Thanks

 

[MintJulep]

NY state law provides the board the opportunity to waive requirements should they wish:

"On recommendation of the board, the department may waive specific
requirements, except as to age, character, education and citizenship, in
the case of applicants who are possessed of established and recognized
standing in the engineering profession and who have practiced lawfully
for more than fifteen years."

Do you meet the 15-year requirement?

Write them a letter. Quote the law back to them.

 

[HgTX]

TWO FE and PE exams each?? Are you sure? I don't think there even are two separate FE exams available to take.

I probably don't need to tell you this, but if you hear tell of a more cooperative state, get licensed there if you can, and then use that to get the NYS license.

Hg

 

[EddyC]

I am assuming that your contact with the board thus far has been verbally over the phone. Unless you make an application and they formally review it, they can't really tell you for certain if you will need to take the FE & PE exams. They are merely making informal general comments. Did you really speak to a member of the board or just to some type of subordinate who really knows nothing about engineering? Go ahead and make the license application. If the board rejects it or wants you to take the exams, go before the board and make your case in person. Each applicant is reviewed on an individual basis. You have more options than you think in this matter.

 

[NYCeng]

Thanks for the advice, would you believe that I miss out on the 15 year requirement by 11 months - although I am told that 15 years work experience is not what you think it is, it is 15 years experience that is accepted by the board whatever that means.

Apparently there are 2 four hour exams that you have to take for both the FE and the PE. I'm going to try and get PE in another state and see if that helps - anyone know of any states that are more accepting of transfers?

I have submitted an application to have my educational achievements assessed, and I now have to submit forms detailing my work experience to date - and get all the experience for each job that I've worked verified by whoever my supervisor was at the time (not easy when they are in other countries!). I've been dealing with clerks at the assessment office and finding it very frustrating! I was told that I can apply for an exemption "you can apply for anything you want, but you won't get it". How the clerk would know what the board is going to decide I don't know.

I have also found out that the USA has signed an agreement with the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) to set up an engineers register to promote professional mobility. It says that engineers who are listed on the national registers of other participating countries (of which Australia is one) should be recognised when applying for professional registration in other participating countries with a "minimum of prescreening". It also says that "where further assessment is necessary a period not to exceed 12 months of sponsored practice is preferable to undertaking formal examinations". When I brought this up with the NY state assessment office I was told that "the US federal government can make whatever agreements they like but here in New York we have our own assessment process" - do these people live in the real world?

 

[Rich2001]

Yes, the USA signed the APEC and the Washington Accords however the issuance of PE licenses is a state's right issue. These accords primary recognize the education.

Copied from the "United States Council for International Engineering's website

http://w

http://www.usciep.org

"USCIEP is authorized to negotiate on behalf of its member organizations but does not have the authority to bind its member organizations without their separate and express approvals. Under no circumstances are agreements negotiated by USCIEP binding upon a jurisdictional board unless that board, at its sole discretion, elects to accept the conditions of such agreement."


You might try Ohio,

http://www.ohiopeps.org/

(it however will be a long ardious task).

 

[HgTX]

It's not really two four-hour exams. It's an 8-hour exam with a lunch break. It's not like you can schedule one this month and another later on.

Regarding the checking of the work history, that doesn't sound any worse than what I had to do to get my PE license here in Texas. I had to write up a 12-page "supplemental experience record" and get every page signed by the relevant supervisors (at least one of whom I prefer not to deal with at all).

I can understand them wanting to check all that stuff, and verify your educational level as well. That's standard in many fields--ever talk to someone trying to re-establish a medical license here?

The one thing I'd think you should be able to get out of is the exams. If they verify that your work experience is what you say it is and your education is what you say it is (that's just verification, not asking you to redo any of that work experience or education), I really don't see why they should make you take the exams.

On the other hand, TX didn't require an exam until just a few years ago, and anyone licensed under the old rules who wants to go to another state has to take that state's exam. So there's precedent for that as well.

Hg

 

[hydrae]

When the say 2 exams, it could be the main 8 hour exam then the take home ethics exam, both states I am licensed required both exams for both the IET (now called the FE) and PE, the second state accepted the techincal exams from the first state but I still had to do the ethics exam, it is take home, read the state laws and rules, fill out the form and mail it in (30 minutes) Note: the ethics exam for the EIT, PE, and second state where similar.
Generally any state that requires the techincal exam will require that you have taken equivelent exams someplace, if the CEng or CPEng required the exams you may be able to have the exams waived, but the experience verification will still be required as well as the ethics test.

Hydrae

 

[Zapster]

This is a major inconvenience in terms of time, money, and effort - does anyone have any experience in successfully obtaining exemptions from the FE and PE examinations when applying for PE licensure in the US?

NYCeng, you should have no problem passing the examinations provided you are qualified to be a licensed engineer in NY. It seems like you believe that you are qualified; yet you have some trepidation regarding the required examinations. The time it takes for the two tests does not seem like an onerous requirement to practice in NY.

 

[jsummerfield]

I think that -
The one Fundamentals of Engineering exam to become an engineer-in-training and any one of the several Principles and Practices exams - are standardized and occur on the same day in every state.

Read the law for the states where you might apply. Several states have exemption options. BTW the cost of registration varies by state. I pay $225/year in Texas for renewal.

Texas permitted graduates from the Texas state universities to obtain a PE with or without the examinations before 1992. I think that Texas changed the rules regarding exemptions a few times. It is likely that someone with over 20 years engineering experience can obtain an exemption from the Fundamentals or Engineering exam. Unless you have a doctorate degree and are eminently renowned in your field it is unlikely that you will be exempted from the P&P.


John

 

[Ron]

In general, and in most states, the only thing that will be verified is your education with respect to equivalence to an ABET accreditation that is required of most applicants for the PE exam. Then they will verify that you have the minimum amount of experience required to take the PE exam (there is no experience requirement for the FE exam...just graduation from an accredited university or its equivalent. I believe the accreditation equivalence is handled through Columbia University in New York or similar approved institutions. Once all that is done, you will then have to sit for (or as you say in the UK...write the exams) the two examinations. They are each 8 hours in length and may be taken during the same exam cycle, but actually backwards....you take the PE exam first, then the FE exam!

Check with NCEES in Clemson, South Carolina (

http://www.ncees.org)

for additional info.

 

[JoeTank]

NYCeng,
Could you summarize the process that you went through in order to be accredited as a Chartered Engineer? Does it involve writing additional examinations as is typical here in the US?

Steve Braune
Tank Industry Consultants

http://www.tankindustry.com

 

[NYCeng]

Thanks for all your responses. I got in touch with the International PE organization in South Carolina and they were really helpful and said that they would write a letter to the board of NY State saying that I should be exempted from having to take the FE & PE exams but that it probably wouldn’t make any difference and I would still have to do them.

The process I had to go through in the UK to obtain Chartered Engineer accreditation involved getting my academic achievements assessed, writing a number (six I think) of career episodes detailing projects I completed and what engineering skills I used to complete them, then give a presentation to a panel of Chartered Engineers and successfully complete a professional interview from the panel of Chartered Engineers regarding all aspects of my engineering knowledge and experience (which last about 2 hours I think).

Right now New York State are assessing my academic qualifications and I am writing up my experience. I am trying to contact people in Australia and the UK, some of which are proving difficult to track down! Once I have got my experience verified and submitted to the board I can request an exemption by sending them a letter explaining my situation. I will do this and see what happens. According to NY State right now because my qualifications are acceptable I should be eligible to sit the FE exam in April, and if I am successful in passing that then I will be eligible to sit the PE exam. They will not issue the results of the FE in time for me to sit the PE in October though so that will be next April at the earliest. I applied in June so it will be a few months short of 2 years from applying to sitting the exam, and just over 2 years before I can get my PE – at the earliest!

 

[NYCeng]

Update – I have written up my work experience to date and sent the forms off to various former colleagues in the UK and Australia, not easy when such a long time has passed and some companies don’t even trade anymore! I am also putting together a letter requesting an exemption, and I am going to attach any letters that I can get from elsewhere explaining that a Chartered Engineer is the equivalent of a Professional Engineer and detailing all the international agreements relating to professional mobility. I have contacted USCIEP, the US Department of Labor, APEC, the UK Engineering Council, and the Chartered Institution of Building Services Engineers. I doubt that I will be granted any exemptions, but I’m doing what I can to try and obtain at least an exemption from the FE exams.

Should my application for exemption fail, and given that my degree was in Building Services Engineering and all my experience has dealt with HVAC systems, and buildings thermal performance does anyone have any ideas on where I should start studying some of the wider concepts of Mechanical Engineering that are likely to come up on the papers?