Treating iron in process water - magnetic water treatment 2

[LukeP]

I work at a pigment processing plant where we get all our process water from a bore (groundwater). Build-up of muck in pipes is an issue that I've been asked to look into, tests have shown that 84% of the 'muck' is iron oxide.

I'm wondering if anyone has used magnetic water treatment. It has come up a bit in my research and I'm wondering if anyone can comment on its effectiveness.

Thanks

 

[hydrae]

putting magnets on your pipes does the same as putting them on your wrist
but you have to believe they work, in order to make them work

Iron removal can be done in several way but it depends on the form the iron is in and the other contaiminantes in the water that may foul the treatment mechanism

these include:
sequestering
ion exchange
oxidation and filter
activated carbon
And each process has several brands of products with different performances

Hydrae

 

[bimr]

First come I, my name is Jowett,
There’s no knowledge but I know it,
I am the Master of this College.
What I don’t know isn’t knowledge.

Consumer Reports magazine (Denver 1996) tested a $535 magnetic water treatment device from Descal-A-Matic Corporation. Two electric water heaters were installed in the home of one of the Consumer Reports staffers. The hard water (200 ppm) entering one of the heaters was first passed through the magnetic treatment device. The second water heater received untreated water. The water heaters were cut open after more than two years and after more than 10,000 gallons of water were heated by each heater. The tanks were found to contain the same quantity and texture of scale. Consumer Reports concluded that the Descal-A-Matic unit was ineffective.


Here is a June 2001 report:

http://www.wbdg.org/ccb/ARMYCOE/PWTB/pwtb_420_49_34.pdf

If you read this report, notice that the complete water analyses are included, the test was run for 60 days, test log was submitted, several de-scaling devices were evaluated, and the crystalline structure of the scaling deposit was identified.

The conclusion:

The results of this study do not indicate any clear advantage for any of the three devices tested versus a control for the inhibition of mineral scale formation or the corrosion of copper. The test protocol was designed to simulate the method of production of hot water used in many larger institutional type settings that employ a shell and tube heat exchanger for the production of hot water. The findings do not support the claims of the manufacturers regarding the ability of their respective devices prevent mineral scale formation in hot potable water systems. The amount of mineral scale formed for the control versus device heat exchange tubes was relatively constant, and proved to be an effective insulator of heat transfer across the tube surface. The scale formed was found to be a type of calcite (calcium carbonate), and had the same crystalline structure for each heat exchange tube. There was no discernible effect on the crystalline structure of the scale formed by any of the tested.

How long should one wait for science to achieve certainty before we must move ahead with the timely, just, efficient, and reliable resolution required by modern society?

For every Copernicus, there is the phrenology advocate and the alchemist. The truth may be relative, but there are certain things that we can definitely exclude as not being true, more likely than not.

The scientific consensus with >99 percent certainty is that these magnetic devices do not work.

People on this forum have periodically argued back and forth as to whether magnetic devices work or not. The bottom line is that there is not a single user or organization with a major investment (say >$100K) in water treatment equipment that uses one of these magnetic devices.

 

[jartgo]

I have no experience using magnets (nor have I ever heard of it) The water should be tested first to see what you're dealing with. Otherwise, I'd suggest oxidation and filtering to address this issue.

Also, I didn't read the article that bimr posted, but hardness is a separate issue from iron. In general, hardness is due to magnesium and calcium ions in the water, not iron.

Moreover, scale on the pipes from hardness is a different issue than the iron oxide "muck" build up as the original poster was interested in.

 

[bimr]

Anyone that has been around water treatment for more than a few months has stumbled upon electromagnetic water treatment. The gadgets have been around for years, as in this example:

http://handle.dtic.mil/100.2/AD753509

This site thoroughly debunks the gadgets:

http://www.chem1.com/CQ/aquacrack.html

Ask yourself the question, if the iron oxide is attracted to the magnet, how will you reverse the magnetic field to remove the iron oxide off the magnet?

http://science.howstuffworks.com/magnet.htm/printable

 

[jartgo]

bimr, are you responding to me? I don't claim to know anything about magnetic treatment, nor do I care to. I was simply pointing out that hardness and iron are two different issues. Your first post seemed to indicate that the device had been tested in removing hardness while the original poster was interested in iron removal. Even people that don't know anything about water treatment should know that the two are separate issues.

 

[bimr]

"Even people that don't know anything about water treatment should know that the two are separate issues."

Really..... You should be aware that one of the user requirements of buying electromagnetic water gadget is that the user must be unsophisticated. These gadgets are universally applied for all water treatment applications, not just "scale busting".

 

[LukeP]

The magnetic water treatment device I was considering can be seen at

http://www.magneticwatertreatment.com.au

(see the Aquatron and Q&A tabs)

I suspected it was a bit of a con. Especially since they don't know the 'exact theory' on why they work.

I know for a fact that some golf courses using ground water for irrigation use these devices to stop iron and calcium deposits blocking up sprinklers. Must be a good salesmen selling the things I suspect.

 

[jartgo]

OK?

 

[bimr]

http://www.chem1.com/CQ/magscams.html#MWT

http://www.chem1.com/CQ/gallery.html

 

[MJR2]

bimr,
There are legitimate magnetic separation devices that can be used in water for the removal of iron scale type particles. Permanent magnetic devices hold the particles until the magnet is removed from the stream and the particles wiped off.

Electromagnetic filters can be used at rates of 150 gpm/sq ft or higher to remove very fine particles down to micron size ranges. Turning the magnet off allows a backflush cycle.

None of the technology I mention here is 'magnetic treatment' of water. But it is physical treatment using magnetic devices.

And there is magnetic flocculation which can provide somewhat amazing results under the right conditions.



Mike

 

[bimr]

Mike,

I am familiar with an application for wastewater treatment for steel mill wastewater and another specialized power plant condensate crud removal process.

But this is the water treatment forum. Deluded people frequently post informatin here about fallacious wonder-working electrical devices for water treatment that do not work.

 

[aquaseaulutions]

Magnetic device will not help. Depending the pH, flow rate and iron level and form. You may use filters like birm, catalox, KDF-85, greensand plus (combined with chlorine injection or KMnO4) or ion exchange.

 

[BarryEng]

A few years ago, CSIRO (Australia) developed two systems for treatment of water. One was Sirotherm & it used hot water to regenerate a resin (after removing salt from the water). The other was Sirofloc & this method used the injection of fine iron particles into a source water & used a magnetic field to 'clear' the water. The iron particles were then removed & reused at the start of the process.

Desk top studies worked very well (I believe) & eventually a large water utility did some full scale tests.

The Sirotherm test was used to reduce salt levels on an artesian bore (about 750 m deep with a TDS of 1100 mg/l, if my memory is still OK).

The Sirofloc was tested on a water treatment plant in a full scale test.

I don't know the details, but I think that the systems worked OK but they were not cost effective.

If anyone is interested in either of these systems, I assume that you could contact CSIRO (Australia) for more details.

 

[gutski]

I am the Director of Sales for an iron ore mine here in the US that is reclaiming magnetite from the tailings..70 FE with the magnetics being 97%..

With the price of Iron Ore drastically increasing...just wondering if anyone knows of a US company that might be in need of our product..