Turning a field into a lorry park 1

[anotherFKUP]

I have planes on leasing a field from a farmer
And turning the field into a lorry park

But hear comes the crunch
Doing it with as little money as possible

What has bee suggested to me is
First: A concrete or tarmac surface
Second: hard core from the quarry tampered down after taking the light soil away first

Third (which was my idea)
I have see metal grids on some car parks that are put into the ground for cars to drive on
I think they are called grass drainage reinforcements
So the death of the grid goes below the seed of the grass and the water can pass through it
Into the soil to stop the grass getting water logged and the tyre digging up the grass and getting stuck
The metal version I saw in real life dose not seam to be for sale on the internet
The only thing I can see for sale are cheap domestic plastic DIY things for domestic use

http://www.terram.com/products/grass-mesh/grassprotecta-grass-reinforcement-mesh.html

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_o...ss+drainage.TRS0&_nkw=grass+drainage&_sacat=0

Absolutely no good for 44 tone artics
First off dose anyone know the type of mesh Im talking about?
And secondly if they are strong enough to with stand truck tyres screwing into them all day long
Do you think the soil underneath would be able to withstand the weight
Or dose the top 2 feet of soil need to be dug away first to get to solid ground
Like you would do when laying your hard core/ tarmac

Thanks

 

[oldestguy]

Several factors are needed, such as weight class of vehicles, how many travel in any area a day, soil types, drainage, is this temporary or permanent use. Under such circumstances and for your cost information, I would ask that question of an experienced geotechnical engineer. It will be money well spent.

 

[LittleInch]

I'm surprised you haven't got more answers, but my experience is this:

You should remove the top 300 mm. Not only is it good practice to store it for later use, but the topsoil is liable to compact, gets quite soft over time and when wet.

The standard temporary stoning of an area to use it for storage is Terram plus 200- 300mm of crushed stone, levelled and rolled.

For artics, basically nothing will stand up to where you get turning or scrubbing of the trailer wheels, so those areas need something solid.

This company makes some good stuff - call them to see if they've got "industrial" strength stuff.

http://www.boddingtons-ltd.com/

or these guys

http://www.terram.com/products/geocells/tree-root-protection-geocell.html

Search on "temporary road mats" and look at the images - they might suffice for the heavy duty turning areas and the grid systems for trailer parking or where you only drive in straight lines.

You will need regular maintenance of any stone type area which is why many people black top it.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[cvg]

really without any sort of geotechnical and hydrologic investigation, you cannot even speculate on what needs to be done to turn this field into a parking lot.

 

[oldestguy]

OG here:

In the States we have some "written in stone rules for topsoil". something like this quote from above.......

"You should remove the top 300 mm. Not only is it good practice to store it for later use, but the topsoil is liable to compact, gets quite soft over time and when wet."

I say that this may or may not be needed. I sometimes ask those requiring that if they are "prejudiced against black." In GB maybe that is the reason???

Yes topsoil has a tendency to take on water somewhat more than non-organic soil. However, I can point to places in my experience where there is 3 feet of topsoil and very successful pavements are built on that. I can point to many jobs where plenty of money was saved by just stripping sod and going from there, providing you don't try to place base course on mud. Once covered with a dense base and a pavement, these areas perform just as well as those with stripped topsoil.

Again, taking a cookbook approach to something like this may work and again it may not. An expert's advice will cost a little, but it is much more likely to result in savings and a good job.

 

[bimr]

The metal stuff is called Pierced Steel Planks or Marston Matting.

Marston Matting got its nickname from the town of Marston, North Carolina, where it was produced. The concept had come from the Carnegie Illinois Steel Company, who under an Army contract designed temporary flight strips to run alongside U.S. highways. The mats were a simple way for crews to quickly put down a runway on any ground, paved or unpaved, where there was none, which came in handy in the remote islands of the Pacific.

Its official Air Corps name was PSP for perforated (or pierced) steel planking. “Marston,” or the incorrect but widely used “Marsden,” was tested at Langley Field in Virginia and perfected during the Carolina Maneuvers.

Read more:

http://www.airspacemag.com/multimed...in-war-pacific-180951234/#yvbb0Ru6depvwSWL.99

You may be able to find a similar product in the UK.

http://kite-engineering.co.uk/Kite-downloads/Perforated-Metal-Planks.pdf

Don't think it is practical for heavy traffic. Six inches of stone were laid to support the pierced steel plank runway during WW2, but this proved insufficient to prevent mud rising through the PSP. Of course, the runway had heavier loadings.

 

[anotherFKUP]

Sorry I should of said
The land in question is in the South East of the UK where soil is of low rock and good quality

Thoses links supplied are not the kind of meshing I saw in Mecon, Belgium
The ones I saw on the hostel car park where about 5mm thick in diameter

 

[anotherFKUP]

I actually have another plan in force for a truck stop.
But when I see something I just have to have a look and investigate it further.

http://www.evetrakway.co.uk/

http://www.liontrackhire.com/

Not the metal mesh idea I first had in mind.
But I know they use these things at music festivals for the delivery wagons to park on.

I am just wondering if the ground underneath would take the weight.
And if all they where ever designed to do was be used in a straight line and not for maneuvering and scrubbing the trailer tyres.
As the mats may come apart; as they seam to slot together like a jigsaw.
And whether they expect you to lay hard core underneath or not.

 

[LittleInch]

Interesting items. You might get a bit of a surprise when you enquire about the cost though...

What these things do is essentially spread the weight or allow uniform compaction of the ground. what that figure is is dependant on your location and may well vary across a field.

Some generic figures which a cursory search picked up.

Ground bearing pressure for a person - 55 kPa
for a car ~ 200kPA
For a truck - 900 kPa

Soil ground bearing pressure - "good ground" e.g. a grass field - 200 to 400, Gravel 1000, rock 1700

works quite well - You can walk over a field and the ground doesn't really move, Drive slowly / park a car - might move a bit, but no real problem unless it gets wet, drive a fully laden artic and it will just sink into the ground

The issue with any plate type system is how the plates interact or flex / bend if the support underneath it is not uniform or "soft" in one place. Most will just bend and flex hence why if you're going to do this I would recommend you have a uniform base level and use this sort of stuff for the high friction / turning areas.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[anotherFKUP]

Interesting items. You might get a bit of a surprise when you enquire about the cost though...
The last time I looked, aluminium was fetching 65p/ kilo
So I guess you could double it

Some generic figures which a cursory search picked up.

Ground bearing pressure for a person - 55 kPa
for a car ~ 200kPA
For a truck - 900 kPa

Soil ground bearing pressure - "good ground" e.g. a grass field - 200 to 400, Gravel 1000, rock 1700
That might be the case
But remember when we use these metal panels we are dispersing the weight of the wheel across the whole area
If driving on a grass field is 900 where the centre point of the wheel is; then that is going to be a lot less when spread out over the panel.
Still I just cant see how the figures add up
55 for a persons weight of say (80-100 KG) 0.08-0.1 tone
compered to 44 tone
Which is 440 times greater and 55-900 is about 18 times greater

The issue with any plate type system is how the plates interact or flex / bend if the support underneath it is not uniform or "soft" in one place. Most will just bend and flex hence why if you're going to do this I would recommend you have a uniform base level and use this sort of stuff for the high friction / turning areas.
Are you saying that the road the wagons drive and maneuver on, needs to be hardcore underneath? and not the parking bays.
And do you think just laying the hardcore on top of the ground will do; as opposed to digging a 2' trench and filling with hard core?

 

[LittleInch]

I am referring to pressure - force per unit area.

The force (weight) is a lot more, but so is the area this is spread over. One persons area (shoe) is a lot less than the contact area od a truck tyre. So yes, the force (weight) is 440 time bigger, but then so is the area it rests on the ground. Not 440 times bigger hence why the ground pressure goes up. Think about low ground pressure vehicles (swamp buggies) - they have huge tyres for light weight vehicles - low pressure, low weight but large area. Because artics normally run on tarmac, the pressure they can exert on the ground is high, compared to people or cars.

Yes, I'm suggesting the movement area needs something better than topsoil. The storage area also needs something better than topsoil or you will rapidly end up with something like Glastonbury on a bad week....

Raw price of Al might be low, but like I said - get the price of the finished article and then compare it to blacktop (asphalt).

There's a good reason the motorways of the world are paved with asphalt and not aluminium sheets....

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[MartinLe]

Removing topsoil (no disposal), gravel, fine planum from concrete, asphalt ... ~35€/m² in Germany. This actually not a parking space, but a silage clamp, that means 3 tons of corn per m², heavy vehicles and you need to worry about leachate (gravel has to be acid resistant -> no limestone!). So my figure includes headaches that you don'T have, but I don't know if they amuont to much or nothing at all.
Building in UK is more expensive AFAIK, but you get the idea. This is the price your cover has to compete against.

Caveat: the 35€ don't include drainage and stormwater management, IF you find something permeable that saves you this headache think about it