Unemployed Over One Year - What Can I Do To Help Me Get Employed

[MechEng281]

I am presently unemployed for just over 13 months. In addition to this red flag I have other negatives in my work history. I have been out of school for six years. I graduated with a BS in Mechanical Engineering. My industry experience is in Design, Product Development, and Manufacturing Engineering. For the first four years out of school I had constant employment. I had one job for three years and one job for one year. However, after this four year mark my employment has been inconsistent. I had 6 months of unemployment (second half 2007), then found a contract job for 6 months (first half 2008), then another 3 months of unemployment, then I found a job that lasted one month (Fall 08), and now 13 months of unemployment. All my positions were at Fortune 500 companies and I am located in WI.

During the last 13 months I have gone over my resume many times and consulted with professional resume writers. I think my resume is as good as I can get it. I have it posted in my LinkedIn profile and several job boards. However, I have not had an interview in months. I go to local networking events three times per week, but I can't find leads.

Obviously, as time passes it will become more difficult to find a job. I am writing to ask for strategies that will help me break out of this rut and find employment. I don't want to be in this position next year at this time. How can I stand out to employers given the long period of unemployment and other negatives in my work history?

Do I need to consider going back to school at this point? Do I completely start over?

Are there any cities in the US I should be focusing my search on. My Indeed.com job alert shows many jobs in California. Can I even consider searching in other cities given my long period of unemployment?

Do I just hang tight and keep applying and hope things will get better in 2010.

Please help!

 

[MadMango]

I feel for you. I was unemployed for 7 months this year, after a move from California to Florida to care for my father.

I flooded the usual online sources with my resume without success, then at the 5-month mark, I broke down and started to personally visit temp agencies (like Aerotek) and local companies. I also visited a couple rapid prototyping companies asking them about their customers, then would follow-up at their locations.

Are you in any position to make a move to another city/State?

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."

Have you read faq731-376 to make the best use of these Forums?

 

[tygerdawg]

13 months is a long time for a degreed engineer even in this economy. Make sure that you aren't the problem. Do you have a...umm...less than stellar personal reputation? Asking too much? Job requirements too specific? Your resume telling the world that your are bitter or inadvertently wearing a chip on your shoulder? <insert next dozen personal issue questions here>?

You may need to relocate for a job or to just simply have a different venue beyond your (and your critics') line of sight.

"Working" doesn't always mean that you have a full-time job for a salary and paid benefits. The issue of freelancing has been discussed many times on this site. Do a little research and this may be a path. I was unemployed for 37 months after the 9-11 recession but I freelanced to pay the bills and support my family. It was design jobs, teaching gigs at a community college, 90-day contracts at a system integrator, 7-month temp-to-perm contract at a manufacturer (that never went perm), and a long list of programming jobs. Essentially anything that would bring in some coins. At no time was I ever idle. If I wasn't working for pay, then I was working to find work. I've never worked so many hours in my life, not even in graduate school.

I'd checked indeed.com on a couple of places I've lived before that are now experiencing deep unemployment. I am always amazed that there are many, many engineering jobs in these places. The challenge that I found before was not so much finding the opportunity, but getting the company to take on an older engineer with too many degrees and licenses and too many years of experience. I don't think your issue is having a 13 month stretch of unemployment (yeah, so what else is new in this economy?), but perhaps there is some other limiting factor that keeps you from getting gainful employment.

TygerDawg
Blue Technik LLC
Virtuoso Robotics Engineering

http://www.bluetechnik.com

 

[CorBlimeyLimey]

Is you CV 'too good' for the positions you are applying for?
Are you applying for positions above your experience level?

Have you checked out the Jobs section in the menu bar above?

http://www.engineering.com/Jobs/EngTips_Jobs.aspx

 

[TheTick]

I have noticed the pace of job openings in Milwaukee has picked up as the year closes. Hope that helps.

Where in WI are you? I might be able to help.

http://www.linkedin.com/in/rolandschwarz

Honesty may be the best policy, but insanity is a better defense.

http://www.EsoxRepublic.com

-SolidWorks API VB programming help

 

[ctopher]

This show is in Feb, but will not hurt to attend and talk to 'a lot' of people.
Get your name out there.

http://www.devicelink.com/expo/pac10/

Chris
SolidWorks 09 SP4.1
ctopher's home
SolidWorks Legion

 

[MechEng281]

Thank you for the feedback. I think am fairly flexible in the types of positions I could work in. I have some experience in design, development, and manufacturing so I can apply to a variety of positions. I am also open to relocation. I have even mentioned in my cover letter that I would cover my own interviwing and relocation expenses to hopefully open up some opportunities were companies were only looking to hire local candidates. Also, after being out of work for so long I am flexible in pay. At this point I would not turn down an offer.

I will check into freelancing as well. That may help me to get back into the workforce.

Does anyone have suggestions on other cities outside WI that would make sense to concentrate on? I have tried Texas and California without much luck.

Thanks again.

 

[brandoncdg]

Southern California is pretty much dead in the construction field for a while. I wouldn't be super picky about pay and type of work. If you can find a job, this is probably the best time to start somewhere and work for a long time. Anyone company hiring through this economy is doing something extremely right. I would be honest in an interview too. It's obvious to someone reading your resume that you can't find work. To get around that say you were looking for a specific type of job, and relate that to the company you are interviewing with. Just realize out here a lot of engineering firms have shut down or are on hiring freezes.

CDG, Civil Engineering specializing in Hillside Grading in the Los Angeles area

http://www.CivilDevelopmentGroup.com

 

[stanford94]

how many applications have you filled out / resumes sent?

i've sent over 4,000 in the last 90 days. only 4 calls.

 

[Careful]

I know where your at (figuratively)! I've been laid off for over 11 months now. I have a former co-worker who's been out for 8 months. Obviously I have no good tips to pass along unfortunately.

I think long distance relocation will be a problem, because most places have their own out of work engineers to choose from, so have no need to ship in any from elsewhere.

Many companies also seem to be being very selective and want applicants with rather specialized skills sets. They don't want to train anyone. It's not so much a question of COULD you do the job, as CAN you do it RIGHT NOW.

What I've been doing is applying to every engineering job within a certain drive time radius, and to jobs I'd really like that would require a relocation. I've recently expanded my drive time search from 60 to 90 minutes, and got an interview out of it. Maybe that would help.

 

[tygerdawg]

i've sent over 4,000 in the last 90 days. only 4 calls.

And therein, I think, is one of the major problems with internet job hunting. You, and 42 gazillion other folks out there are flooding the hiring managers with electronic resumes. It's quick, easy, and efficient, but not effective. I had a revelation on this back in my freelancing days, about 2002 or so. It can only be much worse now. I arranged a tour at a local mfg company for my class of students. I was probing the young cocky Mfg Engrg Mgr for possible job openings. He told me he uses Monster.com and receives 5,000 resumes for every opening. He uses HR Dept to screen them, so he gets 200 resumes in his email inbox. He opens each resume (MSWord format) and hits F7 for Spell Check. If there are any mispelling hits, he deletes the resume and moves on. I asked him if he was aware that most valid engineering terms aren't in the MSWord SpellCheck dictionary, and he was probably deleting good resumes. That chowderhead just stared back at me, dumbstruck. The lessons of that story: hiring managers must deal with a tsunami of resumes for every opening, and the filtering process is inexact. You need to improve the odds of getting someone's eyes on the words of your resume for the 15 milliseconds that they have allotted to looking at it so that your resume goes into the "call back" pile.

I have also found that a good proportion of internet job listings are bogus. Someone is collecting resumes, or probing the market to see if there would be any candidates for a proposed position, or doing a bait & switch scam, or many other non-job related reasons. I've suffered through all of them. I would augment the internet strategy by using internet to gather intelligence and leads about who's hiring, then making direct contact via telephone to discuss reality & details. Develop a series of scripts and rehearse them for when you actually get a live body with the time to talk about job openings. Talk to them with the intention of gathering intelligence and putting a memory of your contact into their head. Then send directly to the principal a PDF or paper resume.

TygerDawg
Blue Technik LLC
Virtuoso Robotics Engineering

http://www.bluetechnik.com

 

[Careful]

Actually getting through to a live person is pretty hard these days, and a lot of positions on the job boards request email application only. And of course it's not unusual to not even know who the actual hiring company is if they're working through recruiters. I've seen plenty of cases where you can't even figure out What the company produces!

I was rather surprised by Stamford94's numbers as well. Between modifying my cover letter (I usually use a standard resume, though I might start changing it too) and filling out the on-line job application, it can take me 30 minutes to apply for a position. Maybe his way is better. Mine certainly isn't working so well. Maybe I need to toss in more Tag words for the scanners for catch on.

 

[racookpe1978]

I guess my question is a little different:

What did you build?

What did you design?

What other skills do you bring to the table? (On my engineering resume I also listed: "Personal skills: Machining (milling and lathe, drill press), structural and pipe welding, pipe fitting, steel erection, frame and finish carpentry, home electrical wiring, blacksmithing, PC and AutoCAD (programming and 3D drafting), on-line training or classes in Safety and QA, measurements, statistics classes, AutoCAD and MicroStation trainer, and also listed a few stories and articles I had written.)

Are you will to travel or work in the field? Have you run construction or repair projects? Did they complete on time, safely, and within budget? (or any two of the three?) Were your cutomers satisfied? What did you learn from your field work?

Have you worked night shifts, or are you willing to work overseas?

Have you run process plants or power plants? Operated heavy machinery or trucks?

Did you contribute recommendations or improvements to to your designs? Did your designs save time or money to your firm or your customers? Did you say so in your resume?

 

[stanford94]

i rarely send resumes to recruiters. normally, it's directly to the company.

 

[dcasto]

under lie. Well what else do you call it. I was "under" employeed as an engineer once upon a time. I under lied my resume and salary.

 

[racookpe1978]

I worked temporary agency/contract jobs for 2-1/2 years. None were more than 6 months, most were 3-6 weeks. Several (not all) were out-of-state.

Did independent house construction and church repair work between starts and stops, but most of my "stops" were for less than 3 weeks.

And put every one of them on the resume. In a separate document as well with the list of every power plant (fossil, nuclear, gas turbine, coal, commercial heater, and hydro) and every different job type I'd ever been working on.

Total was 2-1/2 pages of a resume that had only two complete sentences in it. Rest were sentence fragments (like this) and dashed statements orlists.

Added a separate 3 page list of the different jobs (piping, interference processing, structural, mechanical, config control, software testing, etc by different jobs.

Figured somebody looking for a pipe engineer wouldn't care about structural work, but would want of list pipe jobs. Somebody looking for mechanical would care about either of those but ... Somebody looking for QA or config management would want that stuff.

The job search firms look for "keywords" - they don't care about length. You've GOT to put the key words they are filtering by computer on the paper for the computer to get you past the first filter. Then you have to get past the reader - who doesn't want to see words, but strength of experience in HIS specific field. The words at that point need to show the person that you have something he/she wants.

Only THEN do you get a chance to be seen by the "reader" who might judge you by some personal standard. So - at that point, and only after that point are you actually getting looked at by a technical person: who might then recognize that a pipe engineer who understands steel can work on pipe supports also.

 

[Japher]

Some good responses. I agree that searching and applying is becoming almost worthless these days. I have applied to some companies, gotten rejected, and then had recruiters call me to ask if I've applied to those companies. I told them I had, and been rejected, only to get put through to a screener or hiring manager for the same company who rejected my resume because their stupid computer driven resume scanner is retarded.

Basically, if you are applying or going after a job by merely hitting a "submit" button then you probably aren't doing enough.

For every job you apply to, and want, you should make an effort to talk to a real live person who has a connection to that job. This could be the hiring manager, HR, some recruiter, etc... How you might ask? Several way:

1. Network. This is easier said than done, but you should probably be targeting jobs at places you know people first. If you don't know people, get out and get to know people. Clubs, associations, charities, etc. are all great places. This, by the way, is something you should always be doing.

2. LinkedIN. Online networking is awesome and easy. Join groups on industries and functions you care about and find interesting. Scout out people who work at or have worked at target companies, see what groups they are in, join those groups. Search for HR people in those companies or generalist or recruiters associated with that company and send them a message, or email if you can, once you have applied. It may bug some HR people, but I have found most appreciate the added effort, and at least they'll look at your resume instead of feeding it to some crazy screener with their finger on the 'delete' button.

3. Keyword Search. Some recruiters don't work on retainer and just adopt jobs off of job boards, find people they assume will fit, and they submit those people to the company themselves. IMO, this is slimey and deceitful. Why should I pay or have some company pay for a recruiter to apply for me? Aren't they suppose to be more? If the recruiter doesn't say they are retained for the position perform a keyword search in Indeed or even just Google and look for the job description. Chances are the recruiter just cut and pasted the job description (that's how lazy they are) and you can find the real job posting.

4. Market Yourself. Don't advertise that you'll pay for everything, just for a job. Also, you are professional, present yourself as one. The fact that you are into A, B, AND C is way to much. People need to get a clear understanding for what it is you do and want to do. If your response is "whatever" than that is what you'll get.
"Design, Product Development, and Manufacturing Engineering" is too broad for your limited experience. Pick one or figure away to combine them all into one like "Design for Manufacturing" or Manuf. Development Engineer or Product Design Engineer, etc... I think what you are showing is confusing some, and they aren't getting an understanding of what it is you have to offer. Look into personal branding.

Hope this helps.

 

[rmw]

Reading through this thread I was going to make the point that Japher made in #4 above. You seem too desperate when you offer to pay for interviewing and relocation expense notwithstanding that it is true. The companies that are hiring are looking for value and will pay this stuff (even as they lay off other staff.)

I once had a good interview for a position that I had hit the 'submit' button for several times. Nothing happened. Then I tried networking; found an old coworker on a power plant construction site I was working on and asked who the HR person for the position was. He didn't know, but his buddy one phone call away did and gave me the name and her number. I called her and dropped the names of my buddy and his buddy. She simply said 'fax a resume' which I did. She called right back. Her comment was "this is the type of experience we are looking for." I wanted so badly to say, then why didn't you read the plethora of resumes I had already sent (I had submitted on several positions for the same job description at various locations and she was the HR for all of them.) That taught me that the 'submit' button was just a black hole. They were so taken by my experience that they flew me over the same week, no advanced purchase, just get there. Unfortunately, Enron happened during the process and the position failed to materialize, but the experience nonetheless was instructive.

I found my present position at at job fair. I almost walked by the companies booth thinking that they wouldn't be hiring my expertise. I had visited their booth at a previous job fair and had struck out. But this time I got noticed and subsequently interviewed several hiring managers. When the hiring manager who did hire me saw my expertise, well the rest is history. And, I knew during the interview that I had the job. He was that open and elated to find my type of expertise.

I found the previous job on a specialty career site, one by and for professionals of the Power Industry. Again, I got an immediate answer and interview once I submitted to that recruiter.

Hope some of this helps.

rmw

 

[MechEng281]

Thank you for the responses. There is some great information being exchanged that I and others can apply to the job search process.

Regarding relocation it sounds like I need to remove the statement signaling that I will pay for interviewing and moving expenses to prevent sounding desperate. I am still struggling with the amount of time I should spend applying to out-of-state positions. I live in Milwaukee, WI and have been focusing most of my search on position in the metro area. Unfortunately, there doesn’t seem to be many openings here. I have heard that the job market is slowly starting gain traction. It might be mid-2010 before the professional jobs start reappearing here. Obviously, I don’t want to wait until mid-2010 to find a job after being painfully unemployed for this long. If I could find an opportunity elsewhere in the next several months, I would relocate. I am spending some of my job search time applying out-of-state, but there are several large hurdles that I think will prevent relocation from happening. First, I am unemployed for over one year. I am sure the companies in other cities can find someone in their local talent pool that is either still employed or out of work for much less time than I have been. Why would they bring someone in that has this extremely large gap in employment? I have heard that being unemployed for this long is a big red flag. Second, most positions I apply to in other cities have a note at the end of the application indicating that only local candidates need apply. Third, I heard that companies are looking for highly specialized skills and I have limited exposure in several different areas. Does anyone have feedback regarding if it makes sense to apply out of state? I’m sure it doesn’t hurt at this point, but if my chances of success are slim to none, then I would rather spend my time doing something else.

I also agree that networking is one of the best methods to find employment. I landed my last job by talking with a previous co-worker. He used to work at the company and knew they were looking for engineers. He gave me the name of the HR person and told me to send a resume over. A couple of interviews later, I was employed. I set up a LinkedIn account recently. I don’t have that many connections, but I have joined a couple of groups and went through and added people I know that are on LinkedIn. I also attend two networking groups held at Churches in the area. People have told me I just need to get in front of more people.

I agree with Japher that I need to be clear on what I offer and what I want to do. I know what I want to do - project engineer. However, being out of work for this long, I would take anything remotely related to my past experiences. I am having trouble finding ANY engineering positions here. I do see how listing all three areas might be confusing.

Thank you again for your responses.

 

[tygerdawg]

A couple more points:

That "Submit" button comment: I concur. I once hosted some Company X guys wanting to look at my machinery. A year later I was looking for a job and saw a good fit position at Company X. I applied via their online submission system. No response (boo hoo hoo, I'm too old, I have too many degrees, they don't like me, boo hoo hoo). Six weeks later it appears online again. My wife (the "smart" one) says apply again, so I did. I got an immediate response and then the job. It turns out they remembered me and were thrilled with my application. The online system scrambled my resume the first time and they could not track me down until I re-submitted. Lesson learned: never trust an online system.

"Unemployed for 13 months" : if I was a hiring manager that would signal lack of imagination and initiative, true or not. So yes it is a terrible red flag that only makes a bad situation worse. You can sweep floors, throw boxes at UPS, or any of a couple dozen other things that will keep you "employed". Sitting on the couch flinging electronic resumes from your laptop only works for a couple months. Get out and find something to do, there is something to be gained from doing almost anything. When interviewing you can say that you've survived the recession by working at various short term gigs. I certainly would be more inclined to interview and hire someone who did anything and everything possible to support himself and his family rather than the one who passively waited for a job to come to him.

Relocation doesn't always mean you must wait for a company to move you. I've moved myself twice at my own expense and the resulting benefits more than paid for the moving costs (which really weren't that much).

TygerDawg
Blue Technik LLC
Virtuoso Robotics Engineering

http://www.bluetechnik.com