unsafe Class 1 DIV 1 equipment 1

[PZas]

Greetings all, and thanks in advance for any replies.

I would appreciate a little adivce and possibly a contact on who to take this to.

As an engineer who works in R&D, is lead engineer on all our NRTL projects, and generally considered a smart cookie a problem has come across my desk. One of our end users asked us to take a look at a competitors product that is rated for class 1 div 1 because of a large number of failures in the field. This was in the final days (literlly) of our NRTL approval on a competing product. I have been lead to believe that the maintenance individuals wanted to have a solid factual reason to tell the procurement personell to stop purchasing these products and wait till ours hit the market. We confidantially showed them a few possibly unsafe issues with the product for their own internal review. They have sinced started buying our product and dropped the issue (no problems here).

However, because of the problems I initially saw I asked my company to purchase one of our competitors items in order to dig deeper and see if there was a serious risk to personell and property posed by the use of this product. Well I have had a chance to look at the product and am completely appauled. The system in question has such basic problems as ungrounded zener diode barriers on IS outputs, IS fuses jumpped or removed, voltage regulators bypassed, lack of EXP rated fittings...they list just goes on forever. Needless to say I feel ethically responsible to report this to prevent an (as I see it) eminent igntion of a hazardous atmosphere and possible resultant injury.

My question is.....

As the product is approved for use in CLASS 1 DIV 1 locations by FM is there a specific contact there or anywhere else where I can submit an engineering analysis report?

I really intend no harm to the manufacturer (though they can burn for putting people at risk) and wish to keep this as quiet as possible while having the deficient products recalled and replaced with safe units.

comments?

 

[IRstuff]

Who does the "approving?" Can't you go to them?

TTFN

 

[EddyC]

I suggest that you funnel your conclusions to your superiors. I feel that any challenges that are made to a competitor's product be done by your employer. The competitor would most likely challenge your conclusions and you need to have your company on board so that they too don't turn against you for fear of a lawsuit by the competitor.

 

[PZas]

IR stuff as stated in the first pose FM (factory mutual) is the approving NRTL on this.

EddyC The company is on board and understand the ethical responsibility.

The real question is if you find a product that is approved by a NRTL (FM specifically) how do you alert them WITHOUT challenging the company directly. We all have an ethical responsibility to do something but the path to take is unclear.

It would be nice if I still had some contacts at FM but I do not know anyone who works there currently.

 

[IRstuff]

You could just send them some anonymous pictures in the mail?

TTFN

 

[bioengr82]

Pzas-

This is why there is an engineering code of ethics. Some of the highlights relevant to your situation:

I. Fundamental Canon #1-
Hold paramount the safety, health, and welfare of the public.

Obviously, if you feel the public safety is in danger, you are obligated to present your concerns to the appropriate authorities.

II. Rules of Practice-
1-f. Engineers having knowledge of any alledged violation of this code shall report thereon to appropriate professional bodies and, when relevant, also to public authorities, and cooperate with the proper authorities in furnishing such information or assistance as may be required.


However, your position as a direct competitor who can profit from this requires an additional level of considerations....

3-c. Engineers shall issue no statements, criticism, or arguements on technical matters that are inspired or paid for by interested parties, unless they have prefaced their comments by explicitly identifying the interested parties on whose befalf they are speaking, and by revealing the existence of any interest the engineers may have in the matter.

and

III. Professional Obligations

6. Engineers shall not attempt to obtain employment or advancement or professional engagements by untruthfully criticizing other engineers, or by other improper or questionable methods.


IMO, if you truly belive that this represents a grave and immediate danger to the public you must report it to the proper authority having jurisdiction. If it is merely a question of quality that is not up to your standards, I would not persue it. I'd make damn sure it is life and death and preface all comments with who you are and what you do. After all....

III. 8. Engineers shall accept personal responsiblity for their professional activities....

 

[ornerynorsk]

If your inaction would cost someone their life .......?!?!?!?

 

[GregLocock]

I'm a bit surprised by this thread as well. Out here in the industry exempt world we had a similar case, we tested a competitor's product and it had a glaring safety problem. So we sent them a letter. I imagine there was a sub-text in the letter along the lines of "sort it out or we go public".

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[PZas]

I believe that somewhere along the way some things were missed. Let me clear them up.

#1 the product does have glaring safety issues, and considering it is used in hazloc there is a danger to personell and property.

#2 The moral question of "should I do something" has already been answered. I believe that I must do something.

#3 FM (factory mutual) is the NRTL on this product.

#4 The real question is does anyone know of a contact within FM who will these kinds of issues. I do not want to cause a huge stink I simply want the safety issues fixed. Is there another body set up for things like this?

 

[DReimer]

It took about 20 seconds to find this link:

http://www.fmglobal.com/approvals/approved/categories/locations.asp

At bottom left are the FM contacts for Hazardous Location Electrical Equipment.

I suggest that the first thing you do is discreetly verify the approval (i.e. that it is not a counterfeit mark). Then prepare a report that is thorough and excruciatingly objective. Identify the reason you looked at the device to begin with.

You will need to find a way to present the report such that you don't embarass FM (after all, they issued approval for a device with obvious deficiencies) because they might not have the same moral sense that you and your company have. Last thing you want is for your certification to be pulled.

 

[PZas]

Thank you for the time in answering.

I have already verified the approval. I am in the middle of preparing a report and have to say that just writing it is enough to make one feel sick.

Really your last paragraph gets to the meat of the situation. I have thus far been unable to find a channel to bring this to FMs attention without causing large waves. I wish they had a section that was specifically designed to deal with issues such as this.

If it were not for the fact that I would like to handle this carefully I would just go to OSHA as they are the NRTL certifier.

 

[jmw]

Have you tried a friendly hypothetical "off the record" word with your own contact within FM?


JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[ChemFemme]

How about an anonymous report???

 

[PZas]

JMW, Apparently I am not being completely clear here.

I do not know any individuals within the FM organization. I was wondering if anyone here had a contact that I could speak with.

Chemfemme, I don't feel the report needs to be anynmous.

 

[MedicineEng]

Be careful with the backlash to your company. Why don't you follow Greglocock's idea and send a letter to your competitor?