Update on "Air Carbon Plastic"

[ornerynorsk]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/company-unlocks-secret-to-making-plastic-out-of-air/

Not much real information but it appears that they have materials in production, and customers. Will be interesting to see how this pans out in the coming years.

It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.

 

[Compositepro]

An utter scam.

 

[ornerynorsk]

So is the process actually not viable economically or are they simply manufacturing a pathway to funding sources, shall we say?

It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.

 

[RPstress]

"Carbon emissions are captured ... [and] ... A bundle of enzymes strips out the carbon and oxygen and rearranges them into a substance they call air carbon."

Information so vague and imprecise that it sounds like lies. 'Air carbon'!

'Carbon emissions' almost certainly means CO[sub]2[/sub] and plants have been doing this quite cheaply for quite a long time (see photosynthesis with photosystems I and II—a lot of steps and more subtle and precise arrangements of metal atoms than a 'bundle of enzymes' and of course needs energy from light). On the other hand improvements in artificial photosynthesis and have been anticipated for a while. I'd like to know more of course. If it sort-of works my guess is that it takes more energy than is reasonable.

 

[IRstuff]

They have a number of patent applications, one of which is

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20130337516.pdf

It reads fairly plausibly. The process involves using microorganisms to ingest CO2 and the like, and they generate polyhydroxyalkanoates (PHA) as a waste product

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[Compositepro]

There is not a single energy balance done in the entire patent. The most basic analysis will tell you that this process can be no more efficient than a forest or field of corn for carbon sequestration. Perpetual motion machines are invented by people who focus so much on details that they lose sight of the basics. I do not doubt for an instant that plastics can be made from CO2 or carbon. Is it an economical way to remove carbon dioxide from the atmosphere? Absolutely not.

 

[rickfischer51]

I find it odd that their website has no pull-down for products, with datasheets for actual useable air carbon polymers. They say that their material will replace PP, PE, ABS, etc. and "significantly out-compete on price." But no actual data.

Their website says they are concentrating on methane, which is supposed to be way more green-housy than CO2. They mention sources for methane as land fills, farms, water treatment plants and energy facilities. Looks like they are dependent on sources of relatively high concentration fairly reactive gas. too bad these sources dont produce ethylene instead.

Rick Fischer
Principal Engineer
Argonne National Laboratory

 

[Demon3]

ICI started making PHB over 20 years ago my dad had a key fob made of it. That is real and there are books on PHAs. Whether such polymers will ever make sense is another question.

Chris DeArmitt PhD
President - Phantom Plastics LLC

Consulting, ideas and training on plastic materials

http://www.phantomplastics.com

 

[IRstuff]

some more information:

http://smallbusiness.foxbusiness.co...ses-2m-to-make-plastic-from-greenhouse-gases/

Supposedly, they're going to make 50 million pounds of PHA this year for around 25 customers.

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