US Navy litoral combat ships having engineering failures 10

[spsalso]

The Independence class can only go at high speeds on a nice day:

https://www.navytimes.com/news/your...de-structural-defects-leading-to-hull-cracks/

The Freedom class is being scrapped. And it's not because they're old and worn out and there's a far better ship to replace them:

https://news.usni.org/2022/03/29/al...ships-in-commission-tapped-for-early-disposal

We can't leave these kids along for a minute!


spsalso

 

[Mark R]

It's hard to believe that they are having this many problems with these new, high-tech ships! They have all of the technology in the world available to them to design and simulate stress on them including finite analysis software. He would think that the design itself should be extremely solid. Hit the modern technological marvels have many more problems than ships that were designed decades ago without the aid of computers etc. Just goes to show that the designers today are much worse and depend too much and their tools instead of knowledge when designing ships or anything else for that matter.

On top of this it takes longer today to design and produce a new ship (or almost anything else for that matter) than it used to. Can you imagine what would've happened in WWII if it took as long as it does today to design new ships and aircraft?

Of course, in the case of the ships instead of building 1 of each design and testing them thoroughly they just went ahead and produced large numbers of them before they were proven! Of course what should the Navy or any of the other military branches care, their funding is almost limitless!

 

[TugboatEng]

We got swindled. The whole modular ship concept was created to scam our government. They were sold as low cost alternatives to proper Navy ships. They were able to sell them at a lower cost because they weren't complete. They didn't have to prove any capabilities, they didn't even need to have a purpose. That could come later after they were built. It never did. See also the Montford Point class of ships built around the same time. Another modular example. They sailed right from the shipyard to the dock where they have remained since.

Maybe we should ask ourselves what Austal, an Australian company is doing designing our Navy ships? It doesn't seem like they would have the experience considering Australia as a country operates only 44 Navy ships with a very different mission than the USA's.

 

[hokie66]

And yet the Austal ships are not the ones being taken out of service. The US designed ones are.

I would have thought that aluminum hulled warships would have been banned.

 

[1503-44]

FEA, Failure Event Assured.

A black swan to a turkey is a white swan to the butcher ... and to Boeing.

 

[SnTMan]

1503-44, like it

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

 

[SnTMan]

Locklin on science has a blog post on the subject.

The LCS named for my town, USS Tulsa was sponsored with a bunch of hoo-rah, and several officers visited the namesake town recently. Looks to be the Independence class (cracked hull).

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

 

[spsalso]

I do like the part about covering the cracks in the side shell with RTV, as long as it doesn't go beyond the crack and impede inspection for crack growth. Perhaps the side shell is non-structural, because I am not seeing how RTV fixes a structural crack. I suppose it hides it pretty well.

Maybe it's to keep sea water from sloshing in and making a big mess. I note the SPOKESMAN pointed out that the problem was above the waterline, and that there's nothing to worry about (or, put another way: "...no cause for alarm...").

I just gotta wonder if it would be bad if one of the "side hulls" broke off. Above the waterline, of course.


spsalso

 

[spsalso]

I watched a bit of the video mentioned by "Locklin on science". Wow, so absolutely cutting edge and latest high tech everything. Just ask us. Well, except perhaps at second 38, where we see an M2 machine gun working. Designed over 100 years ago, and still doing a good job of being VERY dangerous. After that, my attention drifted.

I've an associate who spent some time on military boats that might need to make approaching fast boats not be a problem. His opinion was that the 50 cal was the all around best tool for the job. Not too big. Not too small. Goldilocks likes it!


spsalso

 

[SnTMan]

China smiles

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

 

[dik]

Neat article... and real limitations on ships capability, almost rendering them useless. I didn't think they used aluminum for hulls; I seem to remember an issue with a couple of UK ships that were badly damaged because of aluminum hulls in the Falklands war. It would be neat to watch the crack 'grow'.

I remember as a pre-teenager putting a glazing point into the hardened putty of my bedroom window. I guess I accidentally 'chipped' the glazing and a crack slowly formed. I marked and dated the progression over several weeks; my dad was less impressed.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Do you feel any better?

-Dik

 

[dik]

If Hokie's correct, do you want all of them to 'break'? Maybe there are some lessons to learn... Did Australia design them? or just build them? If design, maybe the US should be looking at the differences. If just built them, they should also look at the differences. It's a lovely looking boat, almost stealthy.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Do you feel any better?

-Dik

 

[dik]

Not just China... there may be the odd Canadian, too.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Do you feel any better?

-Dik

 

[dik]

RTV stands for room temperature vulcanizing... I'd not heard of that before.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Do you feel any better?

-Dik

 

[TugboatEng]

Take the article with a grain of salt. General Dynamics has operated the NASSCO shipyard in San Diego for quite some time and they build both military and commercial ships of moderate quality.

 

[dik]

...maybe a multi-billion dollar, grain of salt...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Do you feel any better?

-Dik

 

[spsalso]

"China smiles "

No. But China wonders how far the rot goes, and how much it may be to their advantage.

Wondering, of course, does not make it so.


spsalso

 

[TugboatEng]

Modern military ships have historically been built around compartmentalization. Current ships are built around CAN bus. I refuse to call the new ships modern.

 

[hokie66]

This article is from 1987, so I guess the Navy didn't learn much about aluminum shipbuilding.

https://apnews.com/article/fb3c5f5bb2688593dadac51dae591dd4

Dik, the HMAS Sheffield had a steel hull, but it was falsely reported that the Exocet missile which hit it made it burn because it was built of aluminum.

The littoral ships which Austal built were not designed or built in Australia, but rather in Mobile, Alabama, with lots of consultation witn the US Navy.

 

[TugboatEng]

We, USA, also recently reached out to Damen, another foreign company, to build our 154 ft Cost Guard cutters. The bow has insufficient stiffness and is experiencing cracking and this is steel construction.

Then again, we also miscalculated the strength required to extend our own 110ft cutter fleet to 123 ft and all vessels had to be scrapped after conversion.

These problems are trivial, though. There is a specific problem in American shipbuilding and lays in the details. There is no ownership of the project, American shipbuilding is too compartmentalized and nobody cares about anything except their own tiny system.

This article is evidence.

https://gcaptain.com/rusting-fleet-top-us-navy-admiral-cno-rust/

USA shipbuilders couldn't care less about what materials they spec on deck. Most of the rust stains on navy ships are around flanged pipe on deck and overboards. In past years flat faced flanges were specified on deck so and rubber spouts were installed on overboards so the water would drain away from the hull and minimize stains.

The problems with USA shipbuilding lay in the minor details. The LCS is a culmination of a lot of minor details.