US PE License for Canadian Engineer 4

[Eng-Tareq]

Hello All,

I am considering getting my PE license for potential future projects in the states, I currently do not have any direction of where the work could potentially be. Therefore, I am looking into getting it in a state which have the least requirements and then in the future I could transfer accordingly to the needed state (and meet any more needed eligibility requirements). Can I get any suggestions, what is usually the go to state for Canadian engineers.

I have seen many Canadian engineers with licneses in Arizona and Michigan, I am not sure if this correlates to anything at all though.

Thanks!

 

[Aesur]

I believe AZ is common because of the lack of need for continuing education (we do it everyday practicing, so IMO this makes the most sense) and because it's a 3 year renewal. Many states have continuing education requirements, and most are 1 or 2 year renewal cycles. The PE test is pretty much the same for all states, there is first the FE exam and then the PE exam, however some states require you to be an SE to perform certain types of structural engineering. Additionally California requires seismic and surveying and Washington and Alaska require a cold weather engineering course.

State Requirements

 

[KootK]

I'm an Alberta engineer licensed as a PE in WI, OH, IA, OR, WY, and CO. SE in CA, WA, and IL.

Things to consider:

1) Some states are finicky about registrants either being a US citizen or having work authorization. WI, TX, and HI are examples of this.

2) Not all of the websites for registering or renewing licenses take Canadian credit cards. This can be a hassle.

3) I might argue that your interests would be best served by picking the most difficult state to get licensed in. That way, you'll be backwards compatible to the other states that have lesser requirements. Given that you don't know where you're projects will be, I feel that this is sensible. Currently, I feel that the most difficult state is kind of a tie between Oregon and California. So I'd go with one of those.

4) If you just want the easy button, I found Wyoming to be the easiest state to deal with by far. They actually changed their website to take international credit cards for me. And they let me blow off the need to register my business with the state department in violation of their rules. They feel very "Albertan". You'll know what that means. They do have PDH but I wouldn't recommend trying to dodge that anyhow. You need PDH for your AB license regardless and, in the modern world, not keeping up with PDH is a recipe for frustration.

5) The state of Illinois has been consistently unkind to me. I down vote them.

6) NY would be a cool place to get licensed. They used to forbid foreigners but then lost a supreme court case and are now forced to accept foreigners. I'm considering perusing NY while the window's open just for spite.

 

[Eng-Tareq]

Thanks Aesur.

Thanks KootK for the comprehensive explanation, being an Alberta engineer I get what you mean yes haha!

 

[KootK]

Another tip: find out what an NCEES record is and work towards getting one. That will streamline everything and keep it on track.

 

[JStephen]

My impression of the foreigner requirements is that they are trying to prevent people that are in the US illegally from getting licensed here. I'm not sure that is intended to prevent people out of the country from doing engineering in the US, though- and that may vary from state to state, also.
Quite a few states will require your employer to be licensed for you to be licensed, which is an extra expense. That corporate licensing may also require registering with the secretary of state in that state, so potentially more fees and hassle.
Generally, you can't practice or "offer to practice" without a license, so the idea of getting a license elsewhere may or may not work when you need it. Also, some states have provisions for temporary licensing that can come in handy.
Michigan doesn't allow carryover of continuing education hours, which makes for extra hassle in staying current.
If you are registered in any state, and want to get registered in a second state, the NCEES Council Record Book (assuming they still have that) will speed the process up and simplify it.
Colorado doesn't have continuing education or corporate licensing requirements, as I recall.

 

[KootK]

My impression of the foreigner requirements is that they are trying to prevent people that are in the US illegally from getting licensed here. I'm not sure that is intended to prevent people out of the country from doing engineering in the US, though- and that may vary from state to state, also.

You're absolutely correct about the intent. It's how it's unfolded in practice that is the problem for non-Citizens outside of the country. As an example, in the aftermath of 9/11, Wisconsin added US work authorization as a requirement. WI is actually my "home" jurisdiction since that was my first license. So it's a bit of a problem for me to, potentially, let that one go now that I'm back in Canada. I'd have to explain that on all future state applications etc.

I basically have to lie whenever I do my WI renewal and click the checkbox that says that I do have work authorization. I cleared this with WI's department of licensing but it still doesn't feel great to do. My wife is a US citizen and it's entirely possible that I'll eventually move back to the US. I fear some audit by the US immigration folks where it comes to light that I've been lying about my immigration status for the last decade. No doubt Susan from the WI DOL will be hard to reach at that time. Good thing I have her email framed in my office.

 

[KootK]

Quite a few states will require your employer to be licensed for you to be licensed, which is an extra expense.

That I have not encountered. Often the employer needs to be licensed for the employee to practice. But not for the employee to be licensed. Given that OP is basically doing this for sport at present, perhaps that limitation is not important at this time.

 

[JLNJ]

I find it very philanthropic of the USA to license our northern friends.

Now, if they would just return the favor...

 

[jayrod12]

Now, if they would just return the favor...

I've seen more than a few US residents with Canadian seals.

 

[canwesteng]

Some states will take you as is if you have canadian P Eng (Idaho), some require some additional references/experience (NV), and many require at minimum passing the FE/PE, so you could get licensed in NV/ID, pass PE/FE and then get licensed in those states.

 

[canwesteng]

JLNJ - if you are licensed in any US state with reciprocity and have 7 years experience, you can get a canadian P Eng

 

[KootK]

Now, if they would just return the favor...

My understanding of that situation is this in most provinces:

1) Canada makes it pretty easy for a US PE to get a temporary license to allow them to complete some work up here.

2) We exert our market protection by insisting that permanent registrants have at least one year of Canadian experience. This is how it went for my US citizen wife. I've been told that this is to ensure that foreigners have an adequate understanding of practices in our unique geographical region. This might hold water for an engineer from Somalia but you would have a difficult time convincing me that an engineer from Michigan would struggle to navigate the complexities of work in Ontario.

When last I checked, this was how TX handled things for Canadian applicants. Naturally, it neuters any attempt to pick up licenses for sport.

 

[WARose]

Me personally, I don't think non-USA citizens should be licensed here. (Although we can make an exception in Kootk's case .) It just contributes to the outsourcing/offshoring problem.

 

[TLHS]

Koot, Ontario specifically actually doesn't have a requirement for Canadian experience at all any more.

https://www.cicnews.com/2023/05/can...r-engineers-in-ontario-0535048.html#gs.52p3gg

The problem with that, in my eyes, is that we have a model that's based on certified education plus apprenticeship. We don't have a testing model like in the states. The tests in the states demonstrate that you have some understanding of the predominant codes. We really don't have any mechanism for validating that other than requiring that engineers demonstrate they've had experience working in a Canadian context.

 

[TORCHMAN]

This is more of an off shoot of this topic and may deserve its own thread:

As a Canadian do you need a special visa to apply for these permits?

Also, say I were to get a license in NY - and not just to get back at them - and want to practice. What is the legal route? Open a company? Get a work permit then a green card?

Say I have family that is American but I am not, does that help?

 

[ggcdn]

Torchman, I cant speak to NY, but in CA the application for license required either a SSN or an ITIN. It did not explicitly require proof of legal authorization to work in the US, like a green card, nor does it grant such authorization. Getting the ITIN from the IRS was difficult...

 

[JStephen]

"Me personally, I don't think non-USA citizens should be licensed here. (Although we can make an exception in Kootk's case smile.) It just contributes to the outsourcing/offshoring problem."

There is a valid concern that licensing non-citizens increases engineering competition, which is a negative effect for those that are citizens.
Similarly, licensing anyone out of state increases competition for those engineers already licensed in-state, another negative effect.
However, in either case, the licensing boards are not set up to address these issue, or to limit competition or create monopolies, etc. So to the extent those are concerns, the licensing boards are not the ones to address them.

Perhaps another obstacle is that certain types of engineering may require site visits and physical presence, and if that is not possible due to other laws, then it's a potential problem.
Another issue: It may be very difficult to address malpractice issues legally if the person is out of the country.

So far as I know, if you are physically located in State A and design a structure in State B, you are "practicing engineering" in State B.
But, so far as I know, the IRS and state income tax laws would consider you to be working in State A.
But not sure how this all works when you get out of the country.

 

[WARose]

However, in either case, the licensing boards are not set up to address these issue, or to limit competition or create monopolies, etc. So to the extent those are concerns, the licensing boards are not the ones to address them.

Agreed. It's something organizations like ASCE & NSPE should be focused on. (And don't even get me started on ASCE.)

 

[mitch32]

KootK did you need to pass PE and FE exams to get your licenses in the USA states you are currently registered? I have been working in the USA for 8 years with no US license but have a Canadian License from QC and BC (I let them lapse cause the company I worked for no longer is paying for it, but still can get them back for a fee). I want to get a license in pretty much any state but it seems they all need a PE and FE exam completed with the exception being Texas who will give a temporary PE while you complete the PE exam (they give 3 years to complete it).