Use of a company's WPS by contractor 10

[Raikwar]

Hi guys,

I work for company 'A', and I have seleted our own (company 'A') WPS for our project. Due to time constraints we had to subcontract the production welding to a contractor.

Is it acceptable (per AMSE &/or AWS) to hire a contractor, qualify their welder to company 'A' WPS & use company A WPS for the production weld.

Thanks for your time & help.

Regards
PK

 

[Ron]

Yes. A WPS is not unique to a company but to a procedural sequence.

 

[DVWE]

How can you be sure of their experience with what you're asking them to weld if they don't have qualified WPSs or welders?

Either code says that Manufacturer or Contractor is responsible for qualifying their own WPSs.

 

[Raikwar]

DVWE, I understand your point.

Will a new PQR by the contractor suffice the requirement?
Thrid party is also involved for witnessing the production welds & the NDEs
Both Company A & the contractor are in compliance with ISO 9001:2000.

I am not a welding engineer or a metallurgist, just trying to clear up my mind with the issues we have before passing on my views.

Thanks for all your help & time.

Best regards,
PK

 

[weldtek]

I'd have to disagree with Ron. Review QW 103.
The contractor is responsible to qualify his own procedures and operators.

 

[DVWE]

Raikwar,

Yes, a new PQR will suffice. For starters, I would give them your WPS as guidance to qualify their own, and I would have someone from your company supervise or witness the qualification.

The additional production welding witnessed by 3rd party and ISO is also good to have.

 

[Ron]

The question was whether a Welding Procedure Specification could be used by another company...of course it can. It is just a written procedure. Whomever decides to use it, must qualify to it, regardless of their company affiliation.

A WPS may be written for the company or by the company...doesn't matter. Porting a WPS to another company is no different. The key is qualifying the procedure and the welders to it.

 

[weldtek]

Not to belabor the point but, ging back to the original question;

'Is it acceptable (per AMSE &/or AWS) to hire a contractor, qualify their welder to company 'A' WPS & use company A WPS for the production weld.

Answer - No

 

[Ballbearing1]

Ron,
As weldtek has pointed out QW 103 clearly states the requirements of ASME IX.
"Each manufacturer or contractor is responsible for the welding done by his organization and shall conduct the tests required in this Section to qualify the welding procedures he uses in the construction of the weldments built under this code,......"

However, it depends on which construction code you are working to as well.
Both ASME B31.3 (QW 328.2.2) and B31.1 (127.5.3)allow the use of one companies WPS by others if certain requirements are met.

Raikwar,
In your case probably the best idea would be to follow as close as possible the variables of Company A's WPS then submit one of the contractors welder qualification test coupons for mechanical testing and have them then write up their own PQR/WPS,
Hope that helps,
Regards,
BB

 

[Ron]

OK...back to the original post.

Let's suppose Company A, instead of hiring Company B as a sub, hires the welder who works for Company B and qualifies him to Company A's procedure. This is clearly allowable since any company can hire any welder it wants. Now contractualy insert Company B, with Company A still assuming responsibility (they have the prime contract). Company B's welder is then qualified to Company A's procedure. Same result.

 

[Raikwar]

I can only wish that the rules/codes are more detailed & specific.... there is always room to debate & thats why we are here.

To cover my rear from all angles, having the contractor qualify PQR/WPS, basing our WPS/PQR as reference looks like a safe option.

Thankyou guys for all your valuable inputs. The thread is still open for inputs...

 

[Ballbearing1]

Ron,
QW 100.1 clearly states "Any WPS's used by a manufacturer or contractor that will have responsible operational control of production welding shall be a WPS that has been qualified by that manufacturer or contractor in accordance with Article 2,...."
The key words are "responsible operational control"
If company Bs welders are employed by Company A they are under the control of Company A, if the work is sub contracted out to Company B then they are not.
Regards,
BB

 

[Ron]

BB you are correct and I agree; however, control can be contractual. Also, you are referencing ASME, which is much more restrictive than AWS in this respect. His question was an "either or", so under AWS he should be fine, though I'm not sure why it's an "either or" since those codes are directed at significantly different segments of welding.

 

[DVWE]

Ron,

AWS D1.1 says the same thing. Have a look at 4.1.1.1. It is a less wordy and watered down version of QW-201, but both state "manufacturer or contractor" as having responsibility for qualifying their own WPSs.

 

[SJones]

Ron does have a point because, if the Contractor acting as recipient of the issued WPS, reviews the WPS, formally accepts it and then adopts it within their quality assurance system, i.e. controls it, what should be the problem? According to the National Certified Pipe Welding Bureau this would be allowed under ASME B31.1. In the end, it's down to the contractual relationship and the ability to get the work certificated.

Steve Jones
Materials & Corrosion Engineer

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/8/83b/b04

 

[metengr]

Is it acceptable (per AMSE &/or AWS) to hire a contractor, qualify their welder to company 'A' WPS & use company A WPS for the production weld.

No, not for ASME Boiler and Pressure Vessel Code work.

Solution - use Standard Welding Procedure Specifications issued by AWS. The SWPS is intended for this type of application.

 

[DVWE]

metengr makes a good point, as long as the welding process, filler metal, and base material are accepted as prequalified materials per the applicable AWS code. If any of them are not, then a qualification has to happen. You can find the list in section 3 of D1.1 if that is the code in which work is being performed to.

 

[Ballbearing1]

metengr,
Have a look at the two clauses I have noted above for ASME B31.3 and 31.1.
If I am interpreting the codes correctly it can be done as long as all the requirements listed are complied with.
ASME VIII Div 1 is quite clear that it cannot be done.
Regards,
BB

 

[metengr]

Agreed, for the Piping Codes and industrial welding. My only comment was for ASME B&PV Code, and I normally do not and would not make a practice of using another company's WPS if I have my own welding program.

 

[Raikwar]

The welding in question is for subsea manifold piping designed in accordance with API-6A, ASME B 31.3 section K & NEN-3650 (Netherlands Pipe line spec).

As far as I can see, NEN-3650 Annex D does not refer to any of this issue.

Regards,
PK