Using a mobile viewer App, would you want 3D model measurements saved? 4

[Ryan Pine]

Good day everyone! Thank you for your insights in advance.

Just wondering about this behavior: Using a mobile viewer App, would you want 3D model measurements saved?
I can see arguments on both sides:
1. Save to avoid losing user inputs.
2. Not save to avoid conflicting with the true definition because ad-hoc measurements may not 100% observe the designed dimensions, due to unskilled measuring techniques, fat fingers, and geometric tessellation. The authority should come from official drawing detailing or 3D annotations? So mobile App model measurements would be only for rough estimates, rather than accurate production, similar to tape measuring a physical piston rod or an engine. A machine shop wouldn't machine a rod simply per 3D model measurements, would they?

What about measurements on 2D drawings using a phone? Save them or not?

Thanks!

-Ryan

 

[BrianPetersen]

Back up, back waaaaaayyyy up, and give us the big picture. What on earth are you attempting to accomplish, by attempting to deal with a solid model on a smartphone screen???

No smartphone that I've ever used has a hope of dealing with Autocad or SolidWorks!

 

[Ryan Pine]

Good point, Brian. Thanks!

Let me clarify. The goal is only to view models and drawings on a phone to understand the design quickly and easily, rather than being glued to a heavy PC and expensive CAD software.

A phone screen certainly isn't up for detailed modeling, but for viewing, I guess it would suffice?

Then I may want to query the diameter of a hole or a distance between two faces... hence the measuring.
The question is whether to save previous measurements with the model or drawings. Thanks for asking!

-Ryan

 

[BrianPetersen]

What do you mean by "previous measurements"? If you are viewing the 3D model on "some computerized contraption" (be it a laptop or some other gizmo) then all the geometry is built into the model, so there's nothing to save. And a "viewer" should NEVER save the model or drawings.

I get that you want to be able to query the model to obtain (let's say) what a dimension is supposed to be according to the model. Do you want to be able to hang onto that in some way and associate it with the model or drawings? Basically then you are allowing yourself to dimension the model. Is that what you want to do?

Does the software license for the underlying modelling software allow that? Does the underlying modelling software allow for opening third-party files? Autocad kinda-sorta does, but it complains.

Would it be better to save a completely separate file that associates with the model or drawing but contains whatever you want it to contain, separate from the model but associated with it?

For field measurements and comparisons I would just envision taking a screenshot of something like this. If additional dimensions need to be permanently associated with the model or drawing then the model or drawing ought to get a proper revision by the proper full-license modelling/drawing software that makes it official. If a huge number of dimensions need to be field checked then bring the laptop with the full-license software and model on it. Phone screen is too small for me ...

 

[MintJulep]

Keep backing up.

I guess it would suffice?

It's typically unwise to begin any type of endevor based on a guess that you're not even sure about.

 

[Ryan Pine]

Thanks, Brian.
"Previous measurements" means that I may measure multiple spots on a model, say several hole diameters, a point-plane distance, a plane-plane distance...These measured results may show up together attached to the model on a phone screen.

You hit the nail on the head about "dimensioning" a model. I don't want to dimension it. The dimensions should come from the design, mostly 2D drawings, not from ad-hoc measuring.

Now let's say the model and measured results can indeed be saved into a different file. Would that be ok? Or would you still regard the measurements temporary and unofficial, so they wouldn't need to be saved at all?

Hope the picture is clearer now

 

[Ryan Pine]

Thanks, MintJulep.
Maybe I should've provided some examples such as a mobile App, eDrawings to view 3D models and 2D drawings.

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/edrawings/id520231936?platform=iphone

So viewing 3D/2D on a phone is pretty popular, similar to browsing pictures.

 

[BrianPetersen]

No Apple products here.

Autodesk's viewer lets you zoom in and out and move your view around, and you can measure distances and so forth, but it doesn't let you create or save anything. If you want to preserve any measurements made from the model and so forth, it's on you to do it, independently of the software. (Screenshot, or write it down.)

These viewers come from the same mothership as the full version of Autocad (for example) and the software is as locked-down as the full version is. The decisions of what you are allowed to do, and not allowed to do, in the viewer relative to the full-feature software, are coming from that mothership (Autodesk) which means ... any requests for new features and so forth, are best asked of Autodesk itself.

At a certain point, their response is going to be "If you want to do that, get the full version of the software" (and pay for it, of course).

I don't even want to think about using something like that on a phone screen ... I bring my laptop to job sites.

If you work for the mothership (Autodesk) and you are asking us whether we would like to have a feature presently included in the full version of Autocad incorporated into the viewer so that we don't have to pay for the full version in order to do that, the answer to that question is "of course"!

If you work for a third party, good luck dealing with Autocad's file format. Beyond my pay grade. You'll probably need permission from them in order to be able to do it. Good luck!

 

[Jboggs]

As far as I'm concerned the "official" model and "official" drawing of any single part or assembly should be stored in one place and one place ONLY! Files from ANY other source are not to be considered official, whether they have markups, notes, or the ever-present coffee stains - they are NOT official. Any shop or fabricator that makes any parts from anything other than the latest official revision of the official drawing from the official source takes full responsibility for the results.

 

[Ryan Pine]

Thank you, Brian.
Yeah, a phone screen is too small for lots of things. So I don't like a mess on it, hence the measurement save question. I'd rather make it like one-off tape measuring. This rough distance. Done and gone. Next one please.

No Apple phones? Would an Adroid App be more popular?

 

[Ryan Pine]

Bingo, Jboggs.
I share your principle.
It comes down to responsibilities if something goes awry.
If a machine shop takes the liberty to measure, but it doesn't match the client's design. The shop has to eat the part.
That's my concern with ad-hoc mobile phone measurements on models.
They come handy for estimation, but one has to know their boundaries.

 

[3DDave]

I would wonder why a measurement was important enough to make but not important enough to save, even for contextual purposes. Anything that is saved should be traceable as to "official" or "not official." I also wonder a bit as no application I have used forced me to save any measurement.

 

[human909]

Back up, back waaaaaayyyy up, and give us the big picture. What on earth are you attempting to accomplish, by attempting to deal with a solid model on a smartphone screen???

No smartphone that I've ever used has a hope of dealing with Autocad or SolidWorks!

Catch up, catch waaaaaayy up. And have a look at what can be now accomplish with a mobile device.

Our site guys now routinely erect steel and install machinery using 3D models on their smart phones. You can also get effective measurements out of the smartphone too. This can be done with structural steel all the way down to working out the bolts required and what pneumatics or motors are on a machine.

 

[BrianPetersen]

Do they need what the original poster is talking about? Are they using the viewer or the full modeling package? What do they need that they don't have?

 

[Ryan Pine]

Awesome use, human909!
Would you be able to share the name of the mobile App?
I'd love to try it out.
Also do your guys save the measurements? Or are the results only temporary, so don't need to be saved?

 

[Ryan Pine]

Good question, Brian.
I was thinking about a viewer mobile App at a much lower cost than full-blown CAD software.
3D/2D on a phone is much more accessible and convenient than heavy computers and expensive/slow desktop software.

 

[Ryan Pine]

Thanks, 3DDave.
I guess it's because the risks of ad-hoc measurements misinterpreting the design?
So the responsibility is on the CAD consumer, not the author.

 

[3DDave]

Yes - the consumer saving ad-hoc dimensions. How is that a problem?

 

[BrianPetersen]

Autodesk and SolidWorks have free viewers. What functionality is missing aside from things that they want to be missing to make you pay for the full version?

Never tried using them on any less than a laptop...if nothing else, screen too small.

 

[Ryan Pine]

Thanks 3DDave.
Here are my two cents. Open for other ideas as Jboggs mentioned above.
Say a designed hole diameter is 200 mm with a general tolerance of +/- 0.1 mm.
What if I, a machinist, measured it and got a result of 200.5 mm, due to my poor skills, fat fingers, mobile model approximation, or whatever reasons.

I saved this kind of loose results with the model on my phone and shared it with my fellow machinists. Later me or my guys, not 100% clear of the background, could drill this hole at 200.5 mm which would be too big and the part would fail.

Not saving ad-hoc measurements could reduce this type of miscommunications.
Or would you prefer saving them, but with a clear policy of sticking to official drawings in production, rather than measurements?

Then what are these measurements used for after all?

What do you think?