Using a mobile viewer App, would you want 3D model measurements saved? 4

[Ryan Pine]

Good day everyone! Thank you for your insights in advance.

Just wondering about this behavior: Using a mobile viewer App, would you want 3D model measurements saved?
I can see arguments on both sides:
1. Save to avoid losing user inputs.
2. Not save to avoid conflicting with the true definition because ad-hoc measurements may not 100% observe the designed dimensions, due to unskilled measuring techniques, fat fingers, and geometric tessellation. The authority should come from official drawing detailing or 3D annotations? So mobile App model measurements would be only for rough estimates, rather than accurate production, similar to tape measuring a physical piston rod or an engine. A machine shop wouldn't machine a rod simply per 3D model measurements, would they?

What about measurements on 2D drawings using a phone? Save them or not?

Thanks!

-Ryan

 

[Ryan Pine]

Totally understood, Brian. It's a personal preference.
Small screens are indeed hard to read.
Smartphones are ubiquitous now, so some, such as me, would love to check out 3D models or 2D drawings quickly and conveniently on the go, similar to viewing pictures.

 

[3DDave]

Well, that "measurement" would have your name on it, so you would be in great trouble. And so would they for not checking that it was correct.

After all, you did it wrong - and could simply have told the machinist that same wrong number. How does saving make any difference? Except that if it is saved then they can find out who saved it. Is that the worry?

 

[human909]

Do they need what the original poster is talking about? Are they using the viewer or the full modelling package? What do they need that they don't have?

No, not to the level of detail being discussed. And like others have said I think such use is problematic.

And sorry if I was a bit abrasive in my first reply to you. I just wanted to emphasis that smart phones and cloud based services are very capable these days. And I took the opportunity to mirror you reply.

Here are my two cents. Open for other ideas as Jboggs mentioned above.
Say a designed hole diameter is 200 mm with a general tolerance of +/- 0.1 mm.
What if I, a machinist, measured it and got a result of 200.5 mm, due to my poor skills, fat fingers, mobile model approximation, or whatever reasons.

Oh and regarding machining or fabrication. I wouldn't even trust many computer 3D models for information regarding machining. As not all detail may be included. Tolerances, finishes, welds etc are not always included in a 3D model. Though with rigour modelling then maybe you could get to a state where you could trust the 3D model.

assembly can sometimes be suitable off a 3D model depending on the item. But a again the 3D model might not include sealants, torque requirements of bolts etc...


As I expressed earlier, in some cases we have constructed large machine support structures and their equipment purely from 3D models run off smart phones. These models are typically Autodesk Inventor or a BIM model of steelwork. We have a competent work crew and we foot the bill screw up and it needs to be fixed.

I'd send nothing to a third party that wasn't accompanied with a drawing. (profile cutting, 3D cutting model can sometimes be used, but they still have a drawing.)

 

[BrianPetersen]

I'm really confused. I was under the impression that you wanted to create something in which you "could", optionally, if you want to (user decides), save the result of one or more queries taken from the model geometry. Now I'm getting the impression that you want to "force" saving of all user queries of the model geometry as some sort of permanent record of what someone did. Un-confuse me, please!

The viewers today let you query the geometry but don't allow you to preserve it in any way. You can, of course, take a screenshot.

How we use it:
- What's roughly the height to that overhead object ... is there enough room for someone to walk underneath without banging their head?
- What's roughly the distance between the closest approach of that robot and the perimeter fence ... can someone stick their finger through that opening and get to the robot path? Does this distance mean we can use the standard 2" wire mesh, or do we have to use 1", or does it need to be a solid panel?
- Is the path of that robot end-of-arm tooling underneath the overhead mezzanine ... or is it probably going to hit?
- Is there enough clearance around that bolt for someone to get to it with normal tools?
- Do we need a step for someone to get up on that platform, or not?

That sort of thing. No great deal of precision. Tape-measure accuracy is plenty good enough for what we do with it. No need for a permanent record. I wouldn't dream of pulling dimensions requiring a toleranced fit from the model geometry, and IMO anyone who pulled a stunt like that deserves what's going to happen to them. If there is a demand to do such a thing, it means the drawing sucks because it's missing a required official dimension, and needs a proper revision to add it. (and yes, it happens. No big deal, get the drawing revised and carry on with life.)

 

[Ryan Pine]

that "measurement" would have your name on it, so you would be in great trouble.

Great trouble indeed
The problem is that some software won't even leave names on the queries. Interpretations (or misinterpretations, or conflicting results) get saved and passed around without the context, traceability or creditability, similar to the spread of urban legends or rumors

Not saving them could help reduce the spread and focus on the quick and easy measurements as Brian listed:

- What's roughly the height to that overhead object ... is there enough room for someone to walk underneath without banging their head?
- What's roughly the distance between the closest approach of that robot and the perimeter fence ... can someone stick their finger through that opening and get to the robot path? Does this distance mean we can use the standard 2" wire mesh, or do we have to use 1", or does it need to be a solid panel?
- Is the path of that robot end-of-arm tooling underneath the overhead mezzanine ... or is it probably going to hit?
- Is there enough clearance around that bolt for someone to get to it with normal tools?
- Do we need a step for someone to get up on that platform, or not?

 

[Ryan Pine]

Very helpful list of uses, Brian!
Sorry about the confusion.
To save measurements with models/drawings, or not to, that's the question
I'm not sure either, but leaning towards not saving to avoid uncontrollable digital spreads.
3DDave shared insightful perspectives as well.

 

[Ryan Pine]

Awesome, human909!
It's inspiring to see you constructing large machine support structures and their equipment purely from 3D models on smartphones.
I feel excited about 3D applications on ubiquitous mobile devices, so much so that I would love to populate the internet with 3D models which are more informative, interactive, appealing, and fun than texts, pictures and videos

The information explosion these days demands more effective and efficient communication. 3D on the internet is the way to go, IMHO.
There have been interesting shopping Apps with Augmented Reality (AR) enabled to show preferred furniture in the actual space. Love it.