V layout with reversed intake and exhaust 1

[hudsonCAD]

Consider a reverse of the standard locations of the intake and exhaust on a V layout engine.

Is it not practical to have a significant portion of the intake tract running up instead of down?

I'm not asking about changing an existing engine etc.

Thanks for any thoughts on this.

 

[MikeHalloran]

There isn't a standard.

If all possible ways haven't been tried, the unexplored volume of the solution space is small.




Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[hudsonCAD]

Mike,

I don't recall seeing an engine with slanted bank(s) where the intake was on the underside of the slant.

It doesn't mean it hasn't been tried of course.

 

[MikeHalloran]

One example: Waukesha natural gas engines are built with the intake on the outside of the V.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[evelrod]

The first time I saw this done was on a Ford "60" midget racer in the very early 1950's in El Paso...

http://cleverlever99.blogspot.com/

Also, I recall one of the Gurney/Eagle 255 engines going into a Bonneville door-slammer a bunch of years ago.

http://www.streetlegaltv.com/forum/obscure-engines-1964-ford-dohc-indy-3889.html

Additionally, if you were at Goodwood this year, for the first time, Ford Museum had the 1965 Indy 500 winning Lotus of Jim Clark on display. Driven by Sir Jackie Stewart wearing a "Jim Clark replica helmet". I think this was the very first time the car had been on track since winning the 500! ( Also that year was the Lotus/Ford of Dan Gurney...Just another example of "reversed layout".)

http://www.classicdriver.com/uk/magazine/3700.asp?id=14667

I could go on, but suffice to say, it's been done long before any of us were a thought!!!

Rod

 

[ivymike]

it's still relatively uncommon in automotive (car) applications, probably for packaging reasons. Typically it seems that the exhaust has to get under the vehicle to get out, while the air can come from almost anywhere.

There are outboard motor Vees with the "reverse flow" configuration too...

http://www.trailerboats.com/output.cfm?id=945613

We’ve covered the technical features of this smooth-running 3.3L block in the past, but since this Yamaha has an unusual design that’s particularly well thought out, it rates a short review here. It uses a 60-degree V block that employs reverse flow for the intake and exhaust systems. The intake feeds fuel and air into the engine around the outside of the V, and the exhaust is routed from the center of the V into the midsection leg and lower unit. This is just the opposite of V-block automotive engines, and results in a more effective and less restrictive exhaust system that’s perfect for a high-performance outboard.

 

[evelrod]

Always the 'uncommon' draws out the 'hot rodder' in most of us, Isaac. In the Temecula/North San Diego area we have a nicely done little Ford street roadster powered by a rear mounted Indy Ford 4-cammer. NOT you common site, for sure.

Rod

 

[BrianPetersen]

Some V8 turbodiesels have the intake and exhaust reversed, in the interest of having the turbocharger mounted inside the V as close as possible to the exhaust ports.

 

[TDIMeister]

Most V-layout Turbodiesels are like that now. The Duramax and 6.7 V8 Powerstroke have the ports arranged in this reversed manner from current typical practise with the turbocharger mounted between the V. The next-generation Cummins V engines will likely also be this way.

 

[patprimmer]

I think some antique Cadillac's also had that layout.

In Indy cars and F1 it is possible to exhaust straight out the back at above engine level, so the pipes over the top between the valley removes heat from the chassis better and makes 180 deg exhausts a piece of cake for cuniform crank engines.

Up draught intake is no problem for dry systems with port injection, but there where inherent problems with up draught carburettors that where popular pre about 1920.

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm

for site rules

 

[izzmus]

I read a dissection of the Cadillac V12/V16 engines that updraft carburetors were superior at the time because you didn't have to worry so much about fuel puddling.

There's some inventive tech from back then to get around problems that we'd consider trivial today.

 

[hudsonCAD]

Interesting info guys.

Thanks

 

[mattsooty]

BMW X6

http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicles/x6/x6/2007/allfacts/engine/v8_twinturbo_engine.html

I am 100% sure there will be other gasoline engines with a similar arrangement, in the market place, in the not too distant future.

MS

 

[TDIMeister]

Oh yeah, forgot about the BMW V8 gasoline turbo. Good call!

 

[hudsonCAD]

And I was half worried people would say I was a nutter.

I can certainly see the advantage in turbo applications.

 

[YvesLLewelyn]

Repco had some very interesting examples.

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/4508/102271repcobrabham.jpg

http://forums.autosport.com/index.php?showtopic=65534&st=80&p=3668049&#entry3668049

 

[mattsooty]

There are several challenges: -

The difficulty in routing the exhaust is, in a passenger car, a major consideration. With the requirement for two 90deg changes of direction.

Another associated problem is the placement for the catalysts which for light off reasons need to be as close to the turbine exit as possible.

Also the placement of the turbochargers in this area, underbonnet, is not ideal for thermal management as there is not much airflow within this area.

MS

 

[bentwings2]

There is a guy here in the Twin Cities that has a streetrod with a SBC that has 8 motorcycle carbs on the exhaust side and long vertical pipes out of the intake. It's bucket T type car and he drives it all over. The last I talked to him he said it runs on E-85 and runs quite well. It has a distributor that looks like a flathead Ford with the crab cap mounted on the front cover.

It has a powerglide trans. The last time I saw it he had a vice grip on the shift arm for a shifter!!!!

The radiator is in the rear mounted under the pickup bed. He uses water pipe for the long runs to the motor.

It sounds strange but it runs.

I just got a picture of it from our club photographer. If I can figure out how to post it I will later.