Vacation time again, any troubles taking one? 5

[EngineerDave]

thread732-295305

So about a year ago, I posted a thread about the difficulty of taking vacation. I did finally get to take the vacation, it was really tough, I had to basically train an employee who had just relocated to my area a week or two before the time I went on vacation.

This year I hope to take vacation again. Emailed my boss a few weeks back, he said it should be ok, but I didn't mention specific dates since i was in the process of finalizing it.

Emailed him again this week. Vacation time i need is slightly over a month from now. Have only taken off maybe one or two days since last years one week vacation. In the meantime my boss and many of my coworkers have taken several vacations.

It is the only time my wife can also take off due to her schedule. So we bought the tickets to our destination since we found a good deal. Of course this is kind of risky while waiting for final approval.

I am pretty much resigned to sending her on with a friend if my company denies me.

I have so much vacation time stored up it's unreal. I am kind of worried that this will be a recurring issue in my worklife, in particular with this company.

For whatever reason, the more years I have in the workforce, the more vacation time I get in theory, and the less I am actually able to take.

 

[rowingengineer]

Have to point out a months notice is a have bit short, couldnt you at least apply for a month and then get more specific closer to the date.

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"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."

 

[jmw]

AT some point you will have to get tough with your boss (not one of those who won't ask his troops to do what he is not prepared to do.... if you have to cancel he should cancel!).
If this is an ongoing resource problem then either they need to live with it or let you have more and better qualified direct reports under you.
It isn't all that unusual for engineers to not take their entitlement, I used to accrue lots of time till HR introduced new rules about the company not giving pay in lieu and not allowing more than so much to be carried forward one year and one year only) but this is usually because engineers would rather be working than sitting on some beach minus computer because the partner won't allow it. But when the company denies the engineer the right to take their entitlement that is something else and may not be legal. Technically, they are in breech of your contractual terms.

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[zdas04]

I've heard this complaint my whole career and it is mostly BS. For 23 years with a large company I took every minute of vacation that I'd earned; and I took it in the year it was earned. All of my peers claimed they were too busy, someone wouldn't "let" them take it, etc. It is all an excuse to not leave the office and maybe miss some drama.

First of every year I scheduled all of my vacation (except 2-3 days) for the year. I set the dates, informed my boss (who always said yes to dates in the future) and MOST IMPORTANTLY put it on my calendar. Then when meetings or milestones were being discussed I would say, "I'm not available _____ thru ____". People would then find dates that worked the best for the most people. Sometimes "important" meetings (today I have to wonder how important most of them really were) would have to fall on my vacation and I simply missed them. I held 2-3 days back from the schedule for stuff that pops up. If I decided to take a day for a kid's field trip I could. If I didn't have anything come up, I'd take a couple of long week ends, but I took every minute of vacation due me.

The big mistake that people make is not fixing the date of their vacation. "It is going to be sometime in May", means that no one can ever consider your vacation in their planning (unless they block out all of May for you) so they don't.

I had a friend once who always carried most of his vacation over to the next year. He was a pretty senior guy with 5 weeks vacation. The last year I worked for the company I asked him "If you can't make yourself take 5 weeks this year what makes you think you are going to take 10 weeks next year?" The company only allowed carrying over last year's vacation to the next year and if you didn't use it it was deleted from the books so he worked for free for 5 weeks a year when he lost the accrued time for the year before.

If you treated a project schedule with the same caviler attitude that you apply to your vacation you'd be fired. Stop doing it.

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering

"Belief" is the acceptance of an hypotheses in the absence of data.
"Prejudice" is having an opinion not supported by the preponderance of the data.
"Knowledge" is only found through the accumulation and analysis of data.

 

[MadMango]

Don't you have an HR Department where you work? I know a lot of people complain about HR, but in instances like this, they are a perfect ally. If not a full blown department, at least some formal guidelines? Every place I have ever worked had a policy of 2-weeks notice for vacation. You've worked hard, you deserve the time off. You've given plenty of advance notice. You have tickets purchased. Enjoy your vacation.

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[EngineerDave]

I think our rule is you have to apply one month before taking anything off over 1-2 days. I hadn't really narrowed down the dates until recently, I do agree it'd be better to have it all planned out way ahead of time.

It is basically the same exact time I took off last year, which was a colossal headache to take also.

I also like hearing about people who plan ahead and book things. Of course we do this with other projects, but never with vacation. I need to learn my lesson.

 

[zdas04]

We all have to stop thinking about vacation as a benefit. It truly is part of our total pay package. If you get paid $100,000/year which includes 2 weeks vacation, then you are getting paid for 50 weeks of work at $2,000/week. If you don't take your vacation then you are getting paid for 52 weeks at $1923/week--would you be happy with any other 4% pay cut?

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering

"Belief" is the acceptance of an hypotheses in the absence of data.
"Prejudice" is having an opinion not supported by the preponderance of the data.
"Knowledge" is only found through the accumulation and analysis of data.

 

[hokie66]

You made the application. If you don't hear back, just go. They will get the message when you don't show up and they read the "on vacation" note on your desk.

 

[FreddyNurk]

zdas04 has a couple of excellent points, though I'll add this to the consideration.
I'm not sure if its the same across the globe, but if you're using your employer as a bank for your entitlements, then if they happen to go broke you can be sure that it won't be easy to recover.

Sure, there are supposed to be laws guaranteeing entitlements and all of that (again, subject to location) but any business who gets themselves in that position has probably already used up the 'entitlements' that are meant to be kept for employees. It can also add up to quite a bit of tied up capital (for the business) so theres obvious reasons why its not a good idea.

 

[EngineerDave]

This raises a good point, in theory if I were to change jobs, I'd be reimbursed for all this unused vacation time. I've had a job where this did hold true, and I was reimbursed (in that case it was a nice to have the money since my position was unfortunately eliminated).

 

[patprimmer]

In Aus, the law used to be, unless specified otherwise as a condition of employment leave was 4 weeks per year to be taken at a time determined by negotiation. If negotiations proved fruitless, they became due by default at 48 weeks after date of commencement The of employment.

Variations most often specified as terms of employment might be that they must be taken during a shut down period like Christmas Or if you are maintenance staff, they cannot be taken during Christmas shut down or they may not be taken during a specified season when it is known production is at it's busiest due to seasonal trends.

Here, if you do not take your owed leave it does accumulate and may be paid as a lump sum on termination which is a nice safety net for employees but a nasty financial liability to employers as it is often paid at a higher rate of pay than when first due.

I have had employers insist that they must be taken within a year of falling due or else they will be lost, That was in fact a bluff as it is illegal.

Regards
Pat
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[GregLocock]

I've got actual dates planned and advertised to the relevant people for the next six months, and indicative dates for the year after that. For anything longer than a week we arrange for an external contractor to cover the duller bits of my job, which is an expensive PITA, but I guess that is management's choice.

If you can't plan YOUR life how would you be trusted to plan anything else?



Cheers

Greg Locock


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[zdas04]

The accumulation thing is far from universal. Some countries have laws about it, but even then there is usually a ceiling on the liability (e.g., the accumulation can only include 2 years prior, any over that can be deleted in some jurisdictions and must be paid in others). Where the law is silent, company policy applies and again it is all over the map. Where there is no company policy it is up to local management and the map gets even messier.

Thinking you are banking prior year's vacation as a safety net on termination has to be one of the riskiest things I've ever heard of. So many things can go wrong with that plan that it would be irresponsible to rely on it.

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering

"Belief" is the acceptance of an hypotheses in the absence of data.
"Prejudice" is having an opinion not supported by the preponderance of the data.
"Knowledge" is only found through the accumulation and analysis of data.

 

[Comcokid]

CNN news article just a few days ago about Americans and vacation.

http://caffertyfile.blogs.cnn.com/2012/05/22/why-dont-most-americans-take-all-their-vacation-time

It seems the excuse that 'you're too busy to take vacation' is a common one as well as loosing vacation time.

 

[PicoStruc]

Thinking you are banking prior year's vacation as a safety net on termination has to be one of the riskiest things I've ever heard of. So many things can go wrong with that plan that it would be irresponsible to rely on it.

I agree 110% with that... The day your compagny will go bankrupt... You probably won't even get your last pay.. so imagine what will happen with your accumuled hours !

 

[jmw]

I am not sure we should countenance such heresies as suggesting that HR has some value even if only in some cases.
It may be true, I cannot possibly comment, but it is perhaps better not to mention it.


JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[zdas04]

I was drinking beer with an HR rep a few years ago. At one point in the conversation he said "I bet you think that I am your HR Rep". I agreed that that was my understanding. He snorted and said "my job is to represent management to you, never to represent you to management". That really cleared things up in my mind.

There is the odd payroll clerk that is in HR (because that is a convenient place to stack them) who is useful, but they are really rare. Mostly HR is just slime on the shoes of management.


David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering

"Belief" is the acceptance of an hypotheses in the absence of data.
"Prejudice" is having an opinion not supported by the preponderance of the data.
"Knowledge" is only found through the accumulation and analysis of data.

 

[jmw]

Dave, I sure hope it wasn't you who bought the beer. What were you doing even drinking with him/her?

(PS, reminder to self, short fuses are: Snorgy for MBAs, Dave for HR, self for Bill Gates).

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[zdas04]

We had both traveled to the same location for different reasons and preferred not to drink alone. HR guys and gals are often fun to socialize with because they only pretend to keep secrets and their stories are often really mean.



David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering

"Belief" is the acceptance of an hypotheses in the absence of data.
"Prejudice" is having an opinion not supported by the preponderance of the data.
"Knowledge" is only found through the accumulation and analysis of data.

 

[MadMango]

I was "forced" to take vacation at one job. I had accrued over 200hrs of vacation, and HR thought it wasn't healthy. It might have been something as simple as the company didn't want to pay me those +200hrs in check form.

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