Valuable tips to a Graduate Structural Engineer 6

[rahuldby]

I feel that to be a successful Structural Engineer one needs careful planning, continuous learning and valuable guidance from the senior engineers or colleagues. But not all the young engineers have the opportunity to improve ones skills and shine under the guidance of a learned Engineer. So, I would like to have your opinions, suggestions or experiences that could help young engineers like me to have a right start to our professional career. Thanks.

 

[rapt]

royces,

I think that it should be compulsory for all graduate engineers to work under the guidance of a senior engineer, sort of an internship. This should be a requirement to receive a degree as it is for medical doctors.

As well,
- learn to do all tasks longhand and gain an understanding of what you are doing and what the results should look like without using design aids or computers.

- never use a computer program to do calculations in an area you do not understand. And always study what the program says it does and compare its results to what you would expect.

- once you have done this, use computers with caution questioning the results and comparing to your understanding of how it should work and what the results should be.

e.g. FEM software is taught as being accurate. It is not even an accurate analysis tool in many situations and can be made much less accurate by input that is not consistent and the understanding of this requires a good understanding of how FEM works. And the program will not tell you that. You have to realise it yourself based on your understanding of engineering and structures.
But is is assumed by many that the design results from FEM design programs are accurate because they come from FEM software. The design routines are not FEM, they are post-processor routines and can easily be wrong.

- never assume a computer is anything more than a glorified calculator. You, as the engineer, are the designer. You make the design decisions.

- never assume that a computer program is carrying out all of the code checks automatically. You must know all of the design code design and detailing requirements and make sure they are all satisfied.

- at the end of the day, if something looks wrong, it probably is. This could be caused by incorrect data input, incorrect modelling or software bugs.

 

[JStephen]

When you first start work, go ahead and look up and read all the state rules in your state pertaining to engineering licensing and practice. That'll give you an idea of what's required of your experience and give you some idea of what you are or are not allowed by law to do.

 

[scottiesei]

Why wouldn't all young engineers have to ability to find a senior engineer to work under, especially in the structural arena? When I graduated, there were PE's every where looking to hire EI's. And to add, never take the senior engineers word for something if you do not feel comfortable. I often used to bring home code books after work to verify something that I was "told" during the day. You just have to be VERY careful how you present errors that you found. That will help develop another important skill for the work place, politics!

 

[scottiesei]

Please provide us with an example of why your, or someone else would not be able to find a position. This would be a very good reference if we could have people post where and how they found their jobs.

 

[rahuldby]

Thankyou all for your valuable responses. And, to be more specific I am working under a Senior Engineer. But, not always you can find a mentor in the Engineer you are working under. I mean to say that the PE would just answer to your specific questions or sometimes you might not even get an answer. Not all engineers feel the urge to train the EITs by sharing their experiences and help them learn by questioning. Sometimes they just want to take things for granted. As rapt pointed out I have couple of friends who are so good at a few FEM programs that they don't know why and what they are doing. I am just looking for some valuable guidelines which could keep young engineers like me on track and focused. I hope what all I said did make some sense. I am looking forward for more responses like the few above.

Scottiesei- I hope I did answer to your first question. But I am not sure about your second one. Can you please be more specific on that. Thanks.

 

[rahuldby]

When I started looking for jobs, I used to spend a lot of time going though the openings available on Job search portals like Yahoo jobs and Monster. But, this didn't really help me a lot. Then I started working things out in a different way. I used to shortlist all the structural consulting firms that interest me based on geographical preference. Then I email to each and every company inquiring if they have any openings in the area that I was interested in. Honestly, this approach worked pretty well for me. I used to rely on

http://www.superpages.com

for getting a list of firms. But, I used to do my homework before I contacted any firm. And, all the professional organizations like ASCE, ACI, AISC etc. are also a great source if you are looking for a new job.

 

[scottiesei]

Royces, it sounds like you did your homework to find your position and that is what I meant by my second question. When I graduated, I went straight to the classifieds in the paper. I lucked out and found a group that I progressed with for the next 7 years. As far as not finding a mentor in your senior, I too had a similar situation. BUT, I found that the lack of answers put me in to the code books more and more. In a sense, I guess lack of direction was some what a teaching skill?!? Discussing projects with fellow engineers via friends or places like this board are a great way to keep educating yourself.

 

[dik]

Go into medicine... <G> Hours are less, the money is better and not anywhere near the liability...

Dik

 

[Galambos]

royces,
its good to hear there are others in the same position as me! i frequently get what i consider 'bad' answers from so-called senior engineers. im not sure i have much to add to this topic, but i share your frustration. i would say to consider searching for a new firm.

 

[kkoloj]

I would say get an MBA and go into the "business" field of some kind. The work is less, the liability is 0, and if you work your way to the top there are million dollar pay offs!

 

[Dinosaur]

I started my job search when I began my senior year in the mid-Fall. We were required to furnish resumes to the Department Head. He had his senior secretary screen them and she made some corrections. They were forwarded to the career placement office. Next we had an interview in the career placement office and they set us up for interviews as various companies visited the school.

About your career ... Getting asssigned an engineer that wants to develop you is extremely important. The problem is that most engineers don't see the benefit to them is worth the cost. Thet spend a few years developing an engineer, he passes his exam, and then he moves to a new company. What's he got to show for his effort?

I was fortunate that I found such an engineer after three years of working. Then I developed about four or five junior engineers. Thet all look up to me and seek my advice about things, sometimes not even about work, but we don't work in the same organization anymore.

Finally, do what you can to perform calcs by hand or with Mathcad or another similar tool. Use "Canned" computer solutions as little as possible until you can reproduce the results yourself. The admonition against FE programs is well given. I worked in an organization where the boss just cracked the whip and guys were using FE when they had no hope of doing the work by hand. There were all kinds of screwups and the senior engineers had to fix the results on their own time. I won't work there again.

Good Luck.

 

[archeng59]

I'd recommend going to work for a mid-sized firm (5 or 6 licensed engineers) that will allow you work on a variety of projects involving wood, steel, masonry and concrete. ask if the engineers will let you go with them into the field to do site visits. you will learn as much about engineering by seeing things being constructed and hearing the contractors discuss issues as you will sitting in the office all day.

I agree with the statement that just because a senior engineer said so, doesn't make it so. but at the same time, beware of being disagreeable with them. I have two interns working for me. one of them argued with me about an issue because it didn't seem possible to him, but he had yet to experience the issue. "trust but verify... diplomatically." pick their brains, but don't distrust the older engineers.

ask lots of questions, but be thoughtful about what you ask. think about a solution, ask if you are on the right track with it instead of asking to take the easy way out. use judgement based on what you've learned from your mentors. during the first six months, you will likely be a pest with lots of questions. after one year, the type of questions should become more thoughtful and less frequent. if you are still asking the same type of questions after one year that you asked in the first six months, you may not be trying to become an engineer.

take some intitiative to help your company finish work as quickly as possible. it's not just a job. your firm sells service. if the service stinks, your firm has nothing to sell. the service is only as good as the people providing it, and you are one of those people. if you do a good job and are timely with finishing your work, your bosses will likely remember that. if you have two weeks to do a job and can finish in one week, do so. don't milk the project budget appearing to be busy. "kill it and bill it."

attend every AISC, ACI and structural engineering organization seminar or meeting you can possibly attend. especially the ones where it only costs you the price of lunch or dinner. if your boss offers to send you, go. don't be afraid to ask to attend a seminar, but don't be mad if the boss says no. AISC and ACI seminars are expensive. offer to split the costs or pay on your own. the amounts are tax deductible and you can learn alot early in your career.

 

[rahuldby]

Dinosaur and Archeng59 - Thank you for your comments. I have learnt a valuable lesson after quitting my first job due to lack of guidance. In this busy world not everyone has time to answer all your questions. But, you could get what you want by doing some research by yourself, and encouraging the fellow engineers to get into the conversation. Hence, instead of making them answer my questions I am just making them open up. Its really working well for me. But, there could be many other innovative ways that you all might have tried when have started your career. Try to share them with us. Thanks again

 

[scottiesei]

Take them to lunch to discuss a topic. My seniors always appreciated when I did that. Plus for about 10 bucks you can get thousands worth of info and you don't have to worry about some one being too busy in the office.

 

[JStephen]

"the amounts are tax deductible"- I don't think so. When I was filling out my forms this year, I noticed that unreimbursed business expenses (which is what I assume this would fall under) are only deductible if they are over a certain percentage of income.

 

[SlideRuleEra]

Be patient, there is no way to obtain a specific level of experience quickly (for example, say 10 years experience in 5 years time). However there are ways to keep the process moving:

1. Even if not required, "revisit" previous projects to see how things turned out. Incorporate what you find out into future efforts.

2. Pay special attention to projects that have "problems", there is much more to be learned under difficult circumstances than when things go right.

3. If possible, seek out assignments that are challenging and "push, but not exceed, the envelope" of your background and level of comfort. Your "envelope" will expand, over time. A former boss often asked potential employees to explain if they had (for example) "20 years of experience or 1 year experience, twenty times?"

http://www.SlideRuleEra.net

 

[rholder98]

It's already been said, but bears repeating: trust, but verify. I have often found standard practices to be incorrect, because nobody bothered to question it before. "Why do we do this?" "Because that's how we've always done it." Your mentor should be able to give you a better reason than that.

As archeng59 said, you should try to have at least a handful of engineers to learn under. They will give you several different perspectives and ideas. I started out under a single PE, and all I learned was how she did things.

Also, the biggest lesson I've learned is that there is almost always more than one correct way. When I realized that, I gained a lot more confidence in my designs, rather than constantly obsessing over whether I'm doing it the "right" way. Ten engineers can produce ten different solutions, each of them equally valid. If you can defend your design, you did it right.

 

[archeng59]

rholder98 is correct. there always is more than one way to do something. I spend alot of time looking at other projects under construction to see how the other engineers solved a problem. whenever possible, I look at construction documents prepared by others to see what they are showing that I might not be showing. I once made a costly mistake to let an older engineer work on two of my projects. this guy is very knowledgable, but he made two decisions that I didn't agree with. we discussed it and he told me those ways were done before and successful. he used the "I've been doing this longer than you" comment more than once. I didn't really believe in what he wanted to do, but caved to his experience. It turned out I was correct and he was not. In my opinion, he held his ground because I have less experience than he does and it angered him that I challenged his opinion. from now on, if I don't like something, it doesn't happen. I don't care what the more experienced engineers say. now, that older engineer is correct more often than not and I listen to his opinions. I "trust but verify".

 

[DJYork]

I agree with most of the comments above. It is better, in my experience, to be in a smaller firm (5-6 PEs) that does a wide variety of projects. The large companies are great on benefits, but sometimes lack the diversity a young EIT needs to develope there skills. At a large company, for instance, you could get pigeon held into doing one type of construction (say you only design Best Buys all day).

Also, some of the things that helped me was to go on as many site visits as possible. It allowed me to view the things I was specifing and designing.

Learn from everyone in the office. You got a degree, good job, but you are not "better" than anyone. For instance, a qualified draftsman can teach you a lot about detailing, and how to connect your structural members. It is easy sometimes to obtain a member's size, but how you erect that member can be challenging.

Good luck.