Value of a company's CAD title block 18

[LarryEF]

If this is an improper posting, please let me know. I'm new to this site, and I do not want to violate your policies.

I am a mechanical engineer and I represent a designer who copied and modified his previous employer's AutoCAD title block to use at his new company. I would like to get members' opinions as to a dollar value of the damages to the employer. The employer claims over $2 million. No drawings were taken, only the title block, and it was modified.

Thank you. Again, if this is out of line, I apologize.

I hope to contribute to this site in the future.

 

[JStephen]

Look on your paper. See that plain white border around the outside of the title block? I invented that. You all owe me big time...

 

[telecomguy]

Where should I send this crispy $100 bill with the plain white border around it? Hey, maybe you can just collect from uncle sam...

<tg>

 

[sbozy25]

LarryEF,
No I am not up set. I think ammused is more the proper term to use here. I am very interested in how this turns out because it seems like such an out-landish clame. No drawing of a title block in the world, no matter how great it is, can save 10% time. They generally do not contain data that is needed for most manufacturing. They contain data that the suits generally use, ie. material that needs to be bought, specifications for the part, etc... The only thing I can think manufacturing would need to know is english or metric. Also, as others have said... There is no way that this block took thousands of hours to develop unless the guy is just plain dumb with his cad system. The should take no more than a few hours at most. You need to do us all a favor and let us know how this ends because I think this qualifies as one of the most pointless suits of the year!

 

[GregLocock]

So if I put 10 title blocks on a drawing then it draws itself. Excellent.

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[cbrn]

Hi,

Greg, this is the best reply in this thread !!! ;-)
I've got all my collegues laughing... 'cause they always get bored when it comes to fill-in a titleblock.

LarryEF, I'm sincerely disappointed. That's a shame. Things may go very bad in Italy but at least a lawsuit like that would have been rejected right at the first audience (and nobody would have spent 1 MILLION !!!!!!!! for lawyers - they are known to be rich enough even without these absurdities...). I'm also curious to know how it will end, because if this company won, then it would be a very, very, very bad time coming on...

Regards

 

[rb1957]

larry,
i think you've got plenty ammunition to describe this as a frivilous suit. There is no technical value of the title block, if there are no distinguishing features how does anyone know from whence it came, even if it was taken from someone, they haven't lost anything (they still have the title block don't they?). the plaintive should be asked to quantify how his title block saves him an astounding 10% of everything. indeed, i think you mentioned earlier that the (possibly unconscious) point to the suit is to tie up a competitor and to possibly force them out of business ... this is surely an abuse of having more money than sense.

i hope you are able to collect a big fee !!

 

[dik]

Is there anything unique about it? You might want to check with a few engineering/architectural firms and get copies of their titleblock to show the courts that they are common.

You might want to find out during examination what if any firms the principles of the new firm worked for and obtain copies of their titleblocks for comparison... even, if you can show the courts that the same basic information is shown... The only thing that sets my titleblock off from anyone elses is the inclusion of a file number that is consecutive and unique to the drawing as well as the inclusion of the scale factor for the drawing... and it's possible that hundreds of firms use similar methods.

I hope ??? hasn't admitted that he's copied the original with modification... contrition, in particular with litigation, is not good for the soul...

Dik

 

[dik]

Forgot to add... welcome to the site...

Dik

 

[GregLocock]

"they haven't lost anything (they still have the title block don't they?). "

Mmm, that's the argument that software pirates and music copiers use. As a creative profession we should be fighting for the protection of intellectual property, except where it has been explicitly released for free use. I do both.

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[dik]

and an earlier comment about whores... you have it, you sell it, and you still got it... <G>

Dik

 

[fcsuper]

Larry,

If rb's comments above are correct, then the defendant actually has a counter-suit case against the plantiff for suing for no other reason that to damage the defedant. I forget was the legal term is.

Matt
CAD Engineer/ECN Analyst
Silicon Valley, CA

http://sw.fcsuper.com/index.php

 

[SylvestreW]

"I forget was the legal term is. "

I believe it's known as SalivatingLawyerItis

 

[IRstuff]

You're all assuming that the claim for damages is based on the cost of the title block itself. Something that large has to be based on economic damages, e.g., loss of sales or confusion of customers.

In some cases, this is a valid argument. Harley Davidson won a case of trademark infringement against Suzuki, for copying their trademarked exhaust sound.

TTFN

Eng-Tips Policies FAQ731-376

 

[hacksaw]

first prize goes to the self-assembling title blocks...

My own experience is that it is not uncommon for a customer to mandate the drawing format and title block design all to the greif of the contractor, even requiring their own logos etc. This is extended, in the case of a general contractor on very large projects, to include his title block design in addition to that of the owner. It is not just to collect $2 million from all involved, but to insure how the plant data books are assembled and that the drawings can be retrived in the various file systems.

Sounds like the injured party is upset about the loss of a customer, rather than the supposed theft of the title block layout, but it was the only weapon at hand.

Title blocks are not commonly copyrighted, but if the first party can successfully show that an electronic file was stolen, as opposed to provided to the second party by the owner, he might have a valid basis for a claim of theft, but not for managing to duplicate a layout

my 2 cents

 

[dcasto]

Theft is not something you can sue for per se. You sue for damages. If you stole a car and wrecked it, you sue for the loss of the car. The big company can say and prove how the person got their title block, but what is their damages.

The design cost of the block is not a damage because they still have it. The loss of future revenue because the average person thinks the small guy is really the big guy, then the big guy has been damaged.