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Vegetable oil as fuel for trucks 11

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austim

austim

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Mar 3, 2001
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I have a friend who is looking for good info regarding conversion of diesel engines (for trucks) to alternate fuels. In view of the current prices of standard diesel fuel, he is considering using vegetable oil.

Can anyone tell him
(a) what good reference sources are there?
(b) would such a fuel change require a change in
compression ratio (to perhaps increase the air
temperature at the time of injection)?

I have told him that we (ie the eng-tips community) should have all the knowledge that he requires. Please do not let me down :)
 
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Author: Matt Curry / Associated Press

Publication: The Detroit News

Date: January 15, 2005

Abstract: On the Road Again means something new for Willie Nelson these days -- a chance for truckers to fill their tanks with clean-burning biodiesel fuel... Nelson and three business partners recently formed a company called Willie Nelson's Biodiesel that is marketing the fuel to truck stops. The product -- called BioWillie -- is made from vegetable oils, mainly soybeans, and can be burned without modification to diesel engines.

Full Text:

DALLAS -- On the Road Again means something new for Willie Nelson these days -- a chance for truckers to fill their tanks with clean-burning biodiesel fuel.

Nelson and three business partners recently formed a company called Willie Nelson's Biodiesel that is marketing the fuel to truck stops. The product -- called BioWillie -- is made from vegetable oils, mainly soybeans, and can be burned without modification to diesel engines.

It may be difficult to picture the 71-year-old hair-braided Texas rebel as an energy company executive, but the singer's new gig is in many ways about social responsibility -- and that is classic Nelson.

There is really no need going around starting wars over oil. We have it here at home. We have the necessary product, the farmers can grow it, said Nelson, who organized Farm Aid two decades ago to draw attention to the plight of American agriculture.

Nelson told The Associated Press in an interview last week that he began learning about the product a few years ago after his wife purchased a biodiesel-burning car in Hawaii, where the star has a home.

I got on the computer and punched in biodiesel and found out this could be the future, said Nelson, who now uses the fuel for his cars and tour buses.

Peter Bell, a Texas biodiesel supplier, struck up a friendship with Nelson after filling up one of the tour buses, and the business partnership came together just before Christmas.

Bell said Nelson's name will help the largely unknown fuel -- typically purchased by government agencies to promote environmental awareness -- gain wider national acceptance. The fuel's average U.S. price per gallon is $1.79.

What Willie brings to this is the ability to communicate directly with a truck driver. That kind of community is hard for people to get to, Bell said. When he starts talking, these folks really listen to him. ... It's like having Tiger Woods talk about golf clubs.

Still, a driver can cover many miles without spotting a biodiesel pump. A map on the National Biodiesel Board's Web site shows a heavy concentration of distributors in the Midwest, but very few in other parts of the country.

Nelson's group is currently negotiating with Oklahoma City-based Love's Travel Stops & Country Stores to carry the fuel at its 169 locations nationwide.

Dan Gilligan, president of the Petroleum Marketers Association of America, expects commercial expansion for biodiesel, but says that supplies are still limited and that making the fuel available in northern states is a challenge.

For terminals to store biodiesel, they have to store it in heated tanks to avoid gelling problems. That's a challenge for the industry to overcome, he said.

 
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This has been some great reading. Thanks to all that have posted.
I am leaning more to the veggi oil vehicle rather than bio diesel. It seems that there would be less hassel in handling of the product. I am also interested in possibly growing a crop to produce my own fuel. Does any one have any suggestions on what crop or pro's and con's of this idea.

One would think that if you could produce your own crop for fuel in a vehicle, what would stop someone from suppling a diesel generator with this fuel for power purposes?

 
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"I am also interested in possibly growing a crop to produce my own fuel. Does any one have any suggestions on what crop or pro's and con's of this idea."

Where do you live? Palm kernel oil will produce over ten tonnes per hectare.

If you're in a temperate climate, rapeseed seems to be the way to go, at about two tonnes per hectare.

Most biodiesel in the US comes from soy oil, which produces under a tonne per hectare, but is heavily subsidized, so it is cheaper than rapeseed oil. That is not the right way to go, IMHO.
 
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"Bytesmiths"
Thanks.
I live in the southern-mid part of Washington State.

Is the Palm Kernel had to work with?

I would not be making "biodiesel" I would use just the refined oil product.
 
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Tropical oils are not suitable to northern climates, neither for growing, nor for use. They have a high gel point and wax point, and will go solid on you well above freezing!

Rapeseed seems to be the oil of choice in colder areas. Germany puts a lot of RME (Rape methyl esters, or biodiesel made from rapeseed oil) in their diesel.

I've been burning waste oil from restaurants. Most of it seems to be soy.
 
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-Responding in particular to what Bytesmith has posted, why is it that copper or copper-based lines would not be suitable for straight veggie oil? I think I understand why copper would be less than desireable for biodiesel, but why is this a trouble for straight WVO?.

I'm converting an older Benz diesel to run on straight, heated, waste veggie oil and thought I was clever when I decided to forego the expensive viton for household copper lines....

Kudos on Veggie Van Gogh, by the by...
 
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"why is it that copper or copper-based lines would not be suitable for straight veggie oil?"

Did I say that? :)

Sorry if I implied that. Copper is not recommended for biodiesel at the US Biodiesel Board website, but should not be a problem for vegoil.

I have a short segment in the VVG biodiesel line, for a "U" section that was to tight a bend for flexible hose. Doesn't seem to hurt anything, but I'd be hesitant about making a long run with it.
 
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This 'TCP' technology is interesting, I wonder how long it will be before 'mining' old domestic waste land fill sites is financially viable?
 
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"I wonder how long it will be before 'mining' old domestic waste land fill sites is financially viable?"

Any day now? Petroleum production is near peak levels, and must inevitably decline. Politicians, media, business -- they're all acting like it doesn't exist. Cheap energy has allowed humans to grow from under a billion before the oil age to nearly seven billion today. How will all those people survive when the price of everything that is touched by oil goes up by a factor of ten or more? (PS: that includes food.)

 
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Good point WGL and Bytesmith

We very well may find that the fossil fuel age has provided us with much more than immediate shaft power. 100 years ago 20 Bu/a corn yield was par. Now we average 120 Bu/a. True farming techniques are better but it does not account for that much yield increase. CO2 level has a large impact on yield.

I believe NOx emission is contributing significantly to our fixed nitrogen base. Sulfur is another contribution of fossil fuel. Farmers for the last 50 years have not had to add Sulfur. Now that the Sulfur is being taken out of fuel and we no longer use high sulfur oil and coal for heating, farmers are finding Sulfur deficiencies.
 
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An item from the Geneva Motor Show:

--- DaimlerChrysler emphasizes synthetic diesel commitment ----

At the Geneva Motor Show, DaimlerChrysler has confirmed its commitment
to the development of synthetic diesel fuel from biomass, known as
"SunDiesel". This biomass-to-liquid (BTL) fuel is produced in a
Fischer-Tropsch process, utilizing synthesis gas obtained through
gasification of biomass (for instance, wood chips).

SunDiesel is very effective in reducing greenhouse gas emissions.
According to a lifecycle analysis commissioned by DaimlerChrysler, the
total life cycle CO2 emissions could be cut by up to 90%. A
disadvantage of BTL fuels is the energy demand in the manufacturing
process, which is much higher than in liquid fuels produced from
natural gas.

The SunDiesel fuel is developed by DaimlerChrysler in partnership with
Volkswagen. The fuel will be produced by CHOREN in Freiberg (Saxony).

 
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I currently work for a technology company that is interested in running all the company trucks/vans off of waste vegetable oil from local chinese/fast food restaurants. On top of that they also want to set up a couple 200A generators to run the office power and supply a hook-up center for the vans/trucks for warming purposes. The owner has even mentioned hearing of the possibility of our local gas/electrical provider paying us for putting our excess back on the grid.

I know of a local engineer in my area that has transformed his old mercedes to have two tanks, one diesel and the other vegetable. I believe he starts up with the diesel and then switches over to the other tank after about 3 minutes etc.

We first would like to know of any grants out there federal or New York that would help us give this a shot. I am then turning to you guys to let me know what is feisable and what is an impossible feat. We have an office full of electricians and me being a mechanical engineer may help us make all this a reality. We feel we have a standard to set, after all our company name is Future Technologies of NY! :)
 
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FTech, good luck seeking grants! THAT's much harder than writing them!

I wrote a modest proposal (couple grand) for converting a food services business to supply their own transportation and heating needs via SVO and biodiesel. I've sent it to four funding organizations, and got polite brush-offs each time.

So maybe I wrote a bad proposal, or maybe petroleum is still too cheap.
 
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"Or maybe the people holding the grant money thought that businesses ought to stand on their own two feet."

The deliverable was to be a report, describing how various food services businesses could do this.

You're thinking I just wanted a handout to convert my own business. Shame on you.
 
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