Vegetable oil as fuel for trucks 11

[austim]

I have a friend who is looking for good info regarding conversion of diesel engines (for trucks) to alternate fuels. In view of the current prices of standard diesel fuel, he is considering using vegetable oil.

Can anyone tell him
(a) what good reference sources are there?
(b) would such a fuel change require a change in
compression ratio (to perhaps increase the air
temperature at the time of injection)?

I have told him that we (ie the eng-tips community) should have all the knowledge that he requires. Please do not let me down

 

[SomptingGuy]

Some of our UK police forces are running (or about to run) on biodiesel comprising 5% vegeatable oil:

http://www.police999.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=942

 

[mslezak]

The person wondering what to grow in Washington State - here's a good link to oil output:

http://psychcentral.com/psypsych/Vegoil

# Soybean: 40 to 50 US gal/acre (40 to 50 m³/km²)
# Rapeseed: 110 to 145 US gal/acre (100 to 140 m³/km²)
# Mustard: 140 US gal/acre (130 m³/km²)
# Jatropha: 175 US gal/acre (160 m³/km²)
# Palm oil: 650 US gal/acre (610 m³/km²) [2] (

http://www.journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html)

# Algae: 10,000 to 20,000 US gal/acre (10,000 to 20,000 m³/km²)

 

[WGJ]

News item on waste cooking oil use in diesel vehicles.

NEW ZEALAND: Ssangyong reported to be trialling waste vegetable oil fuel
26 Jul 2005
Source: just-auto.com editorial team




South Korean car manufacturer SsangYong - owned and controlled by China's Shanghai Automotive Industry Corporation (SAIC) – reportedly is using New Zealand as a test bed for waste vegetable oil (WVO) as a fuel.

According to the stuff.co.nz website, ChangingWorld.com reported that Ssangyong has provided a 2.9-litre turbo-diesel Musso that Lower Hutt-based company Renewable Energy Solutions has converted to a dual-fuel vehicle running on either "Envirofuel" - recycled waste cooking oil - or conventional diesel fuel.

Renewable Energy Solutions is also in the process of converting a 2.7-litre diesel SsangYong Stavic (a new 7-seater minivan) to test the fuel, according to the reports.

David Renwick, of Renewable Energy, has been running the Musso 4WD on fish and chips oil for over a year and plans to offer a conversion kit for vehicles at $NZ5000 which would include a 1000-litre home tank to top up with waste vege oil, which he said, on his company's website, costs 49c/litre.

Tests reportedly had shown fuel consumption was about a third better than on using commercial diesel.

No chemicals were added to the oil, but it was warmed in the vehicle's tank to the point where it was thin enough to be properly atomised by the fuel injectors. This enabled it to burn properly, without forming deposits on the injectors and in the cylinder head.

The company's vehicle conversion included two fuel tanks - one for diesel, one for vegetable oil - a heater for the vegetable oil and an injection management system that could handle both.

Russell Burling, chairman of SsangYong's Australian importer Rapson Holdings, is reported to have said that he would like to trial the Envirofuel technology in Australia.

The company was planning to bring in an NZ engineer next month to look at the requirements for trials in Australia.

"SsangYong Korea is also interested," Burling reportedly said. "Definitely with the way fuel prices have gone we must investigate alternatives."

The reports said that, at the time of SAIC's initial acquisition of 48.9% of SsangYong in January, SsangYong CEO So Jin-kwan stated that SsangYong would concentrate on developing environmentally-friendly engines, with a diesel-hybrid engine possible. Currently, SsangYong uses Mercedes technology in its vehicles.

 

[punkneko]

Heres the deal My boss, as well as I are looking in to the Bio-desiel options. First off I am looking for Comformation that newer moddle desile trucks (year 2000 and up) already has the technology inside the engine platform to run off of boi desiel. (yes i did tell him that, but my knowlege is limited...and i'm probably wrong.) Second. If He did by a new modle desiel, what would be the amount of money need to convert/change out eninge parts to run off the bio desiel. Thirdl, Does bio-desile mean he can go to the locala fast food joint and take there oil of them and strain it himself to use? Response to this post is vital to his choice of besiel-v-gas. Your help would be very much apreciated. (sorry for spelling >.> it's always been crapy for me)

 

[GLKW]

Punkneko,
Go to greasecar.com. There is alot of information there and alot of people will to tell you about there experiences with veggie oil and biodiesel.

I know of a few newer vehicles that are running on bio or veggie fuel with no problems. If you set the system up correctly it will run many miles.

Diesels where built to run on oil. Do a search on the first diesel that was previewed, it was running on peanut oil.

 

[Bytesmiths]

Hi punkneko!

"I am looking for Comformation that newer moddle desile trucks (year 2000 and up) already has the technology inside the engine platform to run off of boi desiel."

No problem. In fact, any diesel of any age will work on properly made biodiesel with minimal impact. Biodiesel degrades natural rubber, so older vehicles with natural rubber parts will eventually need service. The lift pump (NOT the expensive injection pump) on Veggie Van Gogh (

http://www.Bytesmiths.com/Van)

went out a few months after switching to biodiesel. It was about $70 for the part, which I replaced myself. After two years of biodiesel, I had to drop the tank for some other reason, and replaced 10 meters of fuel line with Teflon, but the original fuel line had not degraded at all.

"If He did by a new modle desiel, what would be the amount of money need to convert/change out eninge parts to run off the bio desiel."

Zero. But unless you can buy it at the pump where you are, you need to build or buy a processor, or have some storage and pumping facility. Most commercial biodiesel these days is delivered on-site in 55 gallon drums or 200 gallon totes, then YOU have to figure out how to get it into your vehicle. So there may be overhead costs, but not in converting a newer engine.

"Does bio-desile mean he can go to the locala fast food joint and take there oil of them and strain it himself to use?"

Absolutely not! Biodiesel is NOT just vegetable oil! Unaltered vegoil is too thick to get through the engine -- you need to thin it somehow. Biodiesel comes from a simple chemical process that makes the oil thinner. If you want to burn straight vegetable oil (SVO) or waste vegetable oil (WVO), then you DO need to do engine conversion to heat the oil to make it thinner.

More details about SVO/WVO at: (

http://www.bcsea.org/sustainableenergy/biodiesel2.asp)

Good luck, and do some Googling to learn tons more about

 

[butlen]

If I heated straight vegetable oil (ie not waste or recovered) up to say 80 deg C, and put it into a hot Diesel engine, what type of problems would I be likely to see, and would the exhaust smell like French Fries?

I am interested in more in detail than "fuel system O rings, pump and injectors", I am interested in cylinder issues, piston ring wear, head coking, and expected level of NOx emission worsening.

And how about the same question, but using crude palm or rape oil rather than refined?

 

[Bytesmiths]

"If I heated straight vegetable oil... up to say 80 deg C, and put it into a hot Diesel engine, what type of problems would I be likely to see, and would the exhaust smell like French Fries?"

The second part is easier to answer: yes, it will smell like french fries -- or elephant ears, or donuts, or whatever people imagine.

The first part is more difficult to answer with certainty. There are lots of people who have done this for many thousands of miles each, but very few published, formal studies. There are reports of injector coking or ring land coking, but again, not formally studies, and possibly attributable to poor practices (oil not hot enough, etc.)

As a mech engr, perhaps you have to cred to do a formal study and help everyone out with some hard data!

 

[butlen]

Bytesmiths,

Thanks for your comment.

Do you know of any way of mitigating the smell in the exhaust? Would an SCR get rid of the smell? I'm talking about reasonably meaty engines (between 1400HP and 3500HP).

Thanks

Neil

 

[Bytesmiths]

"Do you know of any way of mitigating the smell in the exhaust?"

Gee, I think of biodiesel as mitigating the smell of petrodiesel exhaust!

The smell is certainly no more intense than petrodiesel exhaust, and considerably less objectionable.

Perhaps if we knew more about why your application is so french-fry-smell averse, we might come up with better suggestions.

 

[natester]

FYI...
I have been using B100 (100% biodiesel) since April in a 1999 E300 Mercedes and a 1985 300D Mercedes. The 1999 has run over 7,000 on B100 and the 1985 has run over 5,000 on B100. It is wonderful fuel; no smell, quicker starting (less glow plug time when the engine is cold), quieter idling, no smoke, no soot AND it is make in Ohio.

 

[butlen]

I want to put a static engine in a building, but I am not allowed to cause a nuisance to local residents. The nearest neighbours are c.300m away, but a 1400HP set will give off a large volume of exhaust gas.

I could take the exhaust very high for better dispersal, but this would have a negative visual impact

Noise nuisance is easy to deal with-but I can't measure smell very easily without actually running the set.

I don't think that odour will really be a problem - but I want someone to reassure me and make me feel better about it!

 

[Bytesmiths]

I'd think you can "spin" whatever exhaust smell there is in a positive manner: "We're using environmentally-friendly biofuel -- you may notice a slight odor like bread baking, rather than the stench of diesel fumes!"

I think 300m is a good buffer for odor. They'll only smell it when the wind is just right. When I run Veggie Van Gogh at events (Cumming 4BT, 105HP), I have to invite people right up to the exhaust pipe to get a whiff.

 

[drwebb]

Here's a paper that claims the physical property differences in esters and triglycerides carry over to the combustion process:

http://www.pages.drexel.edu/~ajl23/Biodiesel04.pdf

Sounds to me like the best shot at doing this successfully would prolly require retuning the engine and being sure that the oil was fresh to minimize gum and deposit formation. It mentions two companies that make engines specifically to run on unconverted vegetable oil, so you might want to research what they do that's different.