Water curtain - Pipe sizing 2

[HVAC68]

Hi all,

Can someone help me with the pipe sizing for water curtain ?

HVAC68

 

[TravisMack]

Calculate it. NFPA 13 states 3 gpm / lineal foot of water curtain. What additional help do you need?

Travis Mack, SET, CWBSP, RME-G, CFPS
MFP Design, LLC

http://www.mfpdesign.com

 

[UFT12]

The question is very vague. There is no pipe schedule for something like that. Pipe sizing comes from a hydraulic calculation which comes from a design which comes from a standard that dictates the design criteria and so on.

 

[MGXFP]

The pipe should be big enough but not too big; otherwise you're wasting money.

 

[cdafd]

Hvac,,,,

What is the water curtain for, protecting ???

 

[MatthewJWillis]

I agree with NewtonFP.

Really big pipe costs a lot of money....

 

[HVAC68]

Sorry my question was probably not clear enough. Due to time difference between the continent where I am in and where most of you are in, there could be some time lag in responding !

Coming back to the question :

TravisMack - Yes, you are right. NFPA 13 indicates "Sprinklers in a water curtain such as described in 8.15.4 or 8.15.17.2 shall be hydraulically designed to provide a discharge of 3 gpm per lineal foot (37 L/min per lineal meter) of water curtain, with no sprinklers discharging less than 15 gpm (56.8 L/min)".

UTF12 - Yes, I am looking for the hydraulic calculations for arriving at the pipe sizing.

cdafd - The water curtain is helping to create a fire compartment in a large basement car park area.

I am looking for help in an excel sheet or similar type of format for doing the hydraulic calculations and arriving at the pipe size.

Thanks in advance for the guidance

HVAC68

 

[TravisMack]

There are forms in NFPA 13 that you can use to hand calc the system. I don't know of any excel spreadsheets that exist for calculations. You would have to program your own sheets.

You may find it more cost and time effective to purchase one of the many fire sprinkler hydraulic calculation software packages available on line.

Travis Mack, SET, CWBSP, RME-G, CFPS
MFP Design, LLC

http://www.mfpdesign.com

 

[stookeyfpe]

You're probably going to conclude that it will be far less costly to provide sprinkler protection throughout the basement rather than trying to design a system where a wall of water may stop the progressive spread of a fire. If this project is in the US, automatic sprinkler protection is required in basements > 1500 Ft.^2 area.

I highly doubt the efficacy of a water wall/deluge curtain, especially in a basement filled with automobiles, and each automobile is assembled with a few hundred pounds of plastics.

 

[HVAC68]

stookefype - We are providing automatic fire sprinkler in the basement. The water curtain is in addition to that, to primarily do a virtual fire separation/compartmentation based on the total basement area as per the codes. The code mandates 2 fire compartments based on the area.

HVAC68

 

[UFT12]

May I ask how to you size the pipes for the sprinkler system?

 

[stookeyfpe]

stookefype - We are providing automatic fire sprinkler in the basement. The water curtain is in addition to that, to primarily do a virtual fire separation/compartmentation based on the total basement area as per the codes. The code mandates 2 fire compartments based on the area.

A water curtain is not equivalent to passive fire resistive construction in my opinion. I will point out that in the US, no fire-resistive rated separation is required in a sprinklered parking garage, other than for exit stairs and vertical shafts, i.e., elevator or waste chutes.

 

[DennisR4]

I had a similar situation on an open parking garage we did a few years ago. The building was built 5 feet off the property line, and the AHJ made us add a water curtain to the open side closest to that property line.

 

[HVAC68]

stookeyfpe - Our code says that the maximum size of a fire compartment in a basement car park area shall be 3000 sqm., beyond which we have to create another fire compartment. In a basement car park, it would be practically not possible to create a physical separation and hence the code allows us to go with a water curtain which would act as a barrier when there is a fire incident.

HVAC68

 

[MatthewJWillis]

We've drifted pretty far from the question..,

Please understand, the way you asked the question, tells me that you need a professional contractor's assistance.

That is a question that cannot be answered on a Tips forum IMHO.

There are many ways to find one in your area..

R/
Matt