Water Freezing in Concrete Basin 1

[Canucks1010]

I have a situation where we have a buried concrete tank. During the construction season winter months, this concrete tank will be open to atmosphere, can collect water, and then that water will freeze.

Does the freezing of a couple feet of water at the bottom of the tank pose any risk? The tank is open to atmosphere, so the top surface is unconfined and free to expand upwards.

 

[klaus.]

well if you look at the water basins in the garden in the winter you know what can happen.....

 

[jayrod12]

It will freeze first around the perimeter, and "bond" (read adfreeze) to the concrete so it won't be free to expand upwards, it will be glued to the wall as the ice grows around the perimeter and thickens in the middle until the bottom part of the water wants to freeze, then you'll get either bursting of the walls, or floor, but likely the wall.

 

[oldestguy]

I'd look to alternatives such as covering this with a zone of insulation. How about some anti-freeze in the water? What do they do at marinas for docks?

 

[Canucks1010]

Thank you all for your inputs. These were my initial thoughts, but the client is adamant that there is no issue. I will look into options of covering / preventing ingress was water.

 

[racookpe1978]

If the concrete walls were very, very slick (smoothed as with a glazed or painted surface) the likelihood of the walls restraining that upward force of the edge around the ice surface will be reduced.
If the walls were sloped outwards (away from the bottom or inside of the tank), then the edges of ice would tend to "break free" of the wall as it was forced upwards in the center and lower down.

Worse case geometry is a rough wall with a coke bottle or milk bottle with a narrow neck.

 

[Canuck65]

I do agree with the others that there is a potential risk of damage. However, your typical residential, outdoor, in-ground swimming pool in a northern (i.e. snowy/cold) climate is left half full of water over the winter, with a cover to keep leaves and debris out. They seem to survive, despite being lightly reinforced.

 

[IRstuff]

Don't lakes and ponds freeze from the surface down?

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[racookpe1978]

Yes, they freeze from the top of water down.
But the boundary layer of a pond is (almost always) very shallow sloped, and is not a "firm" surface: Mud, sand, dirt or "loose" rock. So the lifting force would pull the layer of mud off the bankment, or dislodge a loose rock or gravel or sand. Waves, wind, ice falls or currents would be much more active in loosening the ice-wall connection forces.

Outward forces from ice on a pond don't really "squeeze out" or try to spread out the "walls" of a pond.

 

[oldestguy]

Any chance to use a stock drinking water tank floating heater? Along with some covering or insulation, it likely will do the job.

 

[SKJ25POL]

Canucks1010 (Structural)(OP)

May I ask do you have a couple of pictures of the tank?
Whats the size of the tank?