Water pump for fire hose 2

[Stones123]

I am trying to speck a water pump that can be used as a fire extinguisher.

Have a water basin right next to my house at street level. Depth of this basin is ~ 1 meter.
From the bottom of this pond to the top of the house is approx 15 meters or 12 meters to terrain from where one will stand with hose.

I have searched several models and brands, but when asking for technical help (besides whats written on the crate - Hp, Motor size, liters / min.) no one is able to answer.

Hope someone her can assist.

Cheers

 

[LittleInch]

Well if that's all the information you can give us I'm not surprised....

Flow seems to be anything you want. Anything from 30 to 250 gpm based on a 1" to 2 1/2" hose

You probably want 30-50 psi at the inlet to the hose.

Depends what you're trying to do. Put out a small domestic fire or trying to stop half a house which is on fire?

Or is this a wild fire type scenario? where you're dousing the walls? Might be better with a fixed sprinkler system pouring water down the walls?

Remember all that water needs to go somewhere....

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[TugboatEng]

For a tugboat (about the size of a house), US Coast Guard requires 80 GPM at 50psi at the highest hydrant. This is sufficient to run two 1.5" (small) fire hoses. The lowest cost pump that I have found that meets these requirements is the MP 2x2 HHLF with 6.7 inch impeller at 3450 rpm. I strongly suggest a bronze construction pump as the cast iron pumps lock up if not used regularly. You can get away with 7.5 horsepower for the motor provided you don't run it wide open. Pumping through a hose should provide sufficient resistance to keep you from overloading the motor.

https://www.mppumps.com/en-us/high-pressure-water-pumps/hhlf-high-pressure-water-pump

 

[LittleInch]

How big is your "basin"?

You would be surprised how fast even a decent sized bit of water can disapear.

Also any pump you get might need to be self priming.

Diaphraphm pumps are pretty tolerant of pumping dirt / fish, etc that you'll be sucking up.

A bit more background would help here....
Like power supply?
How long you want to pump water?
What are the neighbours going to do?
Is this portable of fixed?
Why can't you use the local water supply?
Could you put it in a tank instead?

Many options, few answers.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[TugboatEng]

Diaphraphm pumps are pretty tolerant of pumping dirt / fish, etc that you'll be sucking up.

I strongly disagree with this statement. It only takes one piece of debris on a check ball to shut the pump down and worse, hard debris between the diaphragm and casing can break the casing.

 

[LittleInch]

To be fair there a lot of simple robust submersible pumps which accept a lot of dirt as well.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[ThatShouldHaveWorked]

Finding a single phase trash pump with that kind of output is going to be challenging if not impossible. You could do it with a phase inverter. You are probably looking at a 45 amp circuit. You will still need to solve venting / priming.

Depending on how committed you are to having on demand water the pump style in the link below is a better fit for your application. It is just an example you will need to look at the specs to see if it would work for you.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/DUROMAX...ed-High-Pressure-Water-Pump-XP702HP/305022652

It would be ideal if you could find one with a propane engine. With a bit of design you could get it to auto vent/prime and start remotely.

The pump is also likely to require at minimum a depth of 1' of water.

 

[TugboatEng]

Did you see the specs on that pump? 63 GPM at 10 feet and it's already far to the right on it's curve. OP needs 80 GPM at 160 feet to get any meaningful capacity.

 

[LittleInch]

We have no idea what the OP needs or wants....

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[ThatShouldHaveWorked]

I did say check the specs....

Here's one that's closer. 100PSI @ 80 GPM with lift of 63". Doesn't list solids spec though.

https://pumpbiz.com/lp-fire-pumps-portable-two-stage-7ak306-lp

Curve

http://www.darley.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/AK306-C577.pdf

 

[Stones123]

Thanks all. Yes some more information would be helpful.

Water flow should be (in my estimation) 15 to 20 liters / min.
Water pressure is difficult to say but 5 bar (?)
The water basin is no more that 25 m3 with a bit of silt and no twigs leafs or other debris.

Water output that of a good and strong water hose as an outright fire hose would be too expensive I suppose.

Cheers

 

[1503-44]

Do you have underground cabled electric power to your property?
Even that may not be sufficient protection.
If the supply lines do not burn out, some Hawaiians are wondering why the electric grid wasn't purposely deactivated.

https://www.csemag.com/articles/back-to-basics-fire-pump-electrical-design-guide/

--Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

 

[LittleInch]

Well 20 l/min / ~5 USGPM is about what you get from standard garden hose.

Is that all you want?

That's going to be a pretty small fire.

To fight a house fire or car fire, most fire engines I've seen recently run about 1" or maybe 1 1/2" flexible hose reel, like you see in some buildings.

They put out something more like 30 to 50 GPM, so up to 10 times your flow.

Think this post is going no where as you clearly haven't given this any thought or research into what you want to do, how much water you would need, where you would get enough power, what type of pump etc etc.

Something sitting there as a once in decade use, if that, then almost certainly won't work when you need it as you won't go and test it every week. will you?

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[Stones123]

OK @LittleInch can you tell me what kind of pump would be required for the type of pump and hose you have seen on fire engines? What are the specifications on such a pump? Alternatively what is the specs for one half the size?

 

[LittleInch]

I've already told you that.

You need a min of about 25 to 30 Usgm / 100 to 120 l/min at a delivery head of about 40 to 60m

Connect using a 1" or maybe a 1 1/4" hose.

Prob about 1.5 to 2 Kw depending on pump efficiency which is quite low for those size pumps.

Fire truck pumps are much bigger and a lot more robust.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[Stones123]

Got it - thanks.

 

[TugboatEng]

At a minimum your pump is going to require a 6.5 inch diameter impeller at 3600 rpm. This works out to be 7.5 horsepower. If you have 50hz power you will need a larger diameter impeller.

Firetruck pumps use a step-up gearbox to allow them to generate higher pressures.

 

[bimr]

Here are you pump options:

Pumps

 

[LittleInch]

Great article. I'm surprised it doesn't mention whether any of the pumps are self priming or even mention the issue of excessive suction lift or priming the pumps as far as I could see.

In fact the article makes some incorrect statements about suction lift implying you can lift 30m. You can't.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[Artisi]

The 30 metre is way wrong, probably should have been 30ft (which in itself is optimistic) the problem when writing and using mixed terms - feet,metres and PSI.

Of course everyone is still in the dark - does the OP need a motor or engine driven unit.

It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. (Sherlock Holmes - A Scandal in Bohemia.)