Welder Performance Qualification

[cmcclain]

The company I work for uses Section IX to qualify welders. We currently X-ray the welded coupons to ensure that the welder can make an acceptable weld. Due to the recent high failure rate and high cost of having the coupons x-rayed we would like to start using guided bend tests to ensure the welders are able to make satisfactory welds.

I would like to know if Section IX requires a CWI to evaluate the Guided Bend Test specimens, and subsequently accept or reject the welder. If so can you point me to the applicable paragraph.

Thanks

 

[metengr]

I would like to know if Section IX requires a CWI to evaluate the Guided Bend Test specimens, and subsequently accept or reject the weld

No. The evaluation of the guided bend test results can be performed by an independent competent mechanical test lab. The lab results and WPQ record are certified by the organization that employs the welder.

 

[pipewelder1999]

The results can also be interpreted by someone within your company. No 3rd party (independent test lab)involvement is required by ASME Sec IX. You quality system or your customers may require otherwise.





Gerald Austin
Iuka, Mississippi

http://www.weldingdata.com

 

[cmcclain]

Thanks metengr and pipewelder1999

My company would like to do the guided bend testing in house. We have the capability to prepare the specimens and perform the bends. We werent sure if a CWI was required to evaluate the test and make an accept/reject decision.

Appreciate all the help.

 

[pipewelder1999]

I don't think you will find reference to a CWI in any ASME code book as far as being a requirement. It may be an option, but not required.

Gerald Austin
Iuka, Mississippi

http://www.weldingdata.com

 

[hogan666]

I think I would be investing more in finding out why your welders are having a high failure rate before looking at cheaper testing methods.

 

[unclesyd]

I have to second the post byhogan666 about finding out why such a high failure rate whatever it is.

As your OP has been answered could you come back with a little more information that might help you resolve the problem. The guided bend test might not be the answer if the welds are bad, bad.

What is your failure rate by RT ?

What is the primary defects causing the weld to fail RT?

What is the experience level of the welders that tested and failed?

Can you give details of your actual test, like position, material, size, and electrode?

 

[pipewelder1999]

Testing "in house" can sometimes cost more than outside sources. Some test labs are setup to cut strips and perform bends in minimal time.

Its my opinion that RT has been the least cost when compared to bend in house provided I have a few coupons to send off.

The advantage of testing in-house is the reduced time frame from test to accept or reject.

Gerald Austin
Iuka, Mississippi

http://www.weldingdata.com

 

[stanweld]

cmcclain:
Don't be penny wise and pound foolish. It is understood that many welder applicants do not posses the skills required to pass the test. The qualification test is your opportunity not to hire an incompetent welder. If the welder cannot make satisfactory production welds, your welding costs will skyrocket with required repairs.

 

[vesselfab]

When we test new hire welders....only 1 in 5 (if we are lucky) pass a simple flat plate test.

Most we don't even spend the time to bend they look so bad.

 

[pipewelder1999]

One thing I often do if testing SMAW of FCAW is have them run a bead vertical and overhead on a piece of angle. Just to make sure the basic skill is there.

Gerald Austin
Iuka, Mississippi

http://www.weldingdata.com

 

[unclesyd]

I would like to have the money spent on trying to see if one can be trained to be a welder and the effort to screen "welders" prior to testing. For years if we let you test we paid a days wages whereas now you are on your own time.
My favorite screening method is to watch how he/she handles their hood and electrode when starting. If they lock their hood in position with a quick head movement and the arc strikes simultaneously one stands a good change of completing a satisfactory test.
I kinda prescreened any one testing by watching for tells from the applicant.
I haven't ever run this electrode before or it's been a long time since I welded with this electrode. What size electrode do I "have to use"? Can I only test for a particularly position etc.

 

[pipewelder1999]

I just told some of my students that confidence i s half the problem. If you don't know what your doing, you shouldn't be wasting the time. If you do, act like you do.

When I test with commonarc I read the instructions, weld it up, and let the inspectors sort it out.

On the money spent, I have driven 600 miles to have some inspector tell me that 1/32" internal concavity was not acceptable and that he was going "by the code". Or that only a stringer bead cap was allowed or only a weave etc.. Often times the cost of testing welders is run up by an inspector lost as a goose. Yet he HAS a job.

When I test welders and they ask me questions regarding beads, fitup etc, If t here are no project specific requirements, I tell them fit it and weld it like you like it. It has to be uphill (usually), meet the code which I explain when asked, and be done like it was done by someone who does it for a living.

The entire testing/retesting program is a big cost to both industry and the welders that have to do it. Did my Dr. have to show his skills if he didn't do any surgery for 6 mos ? I don't know but I know I don't make near the same $ for my dexterity !

Gerald Austin
Iuka, Mississippi

http://www.weldingdata.com

 

[unclesyd]

What ever happened to the "Evergreen Welder Certification Card"?
I know in the mid 90's when we were a an Exxon,Baton Rouge, turnaround planning meeting and the subject was brought up several times. It hadn't been resolved at that time.

 

[pipewelder1999]

I tested about 100 structural and tube welders last year at a lab across from one of the refineries there in Baton Rouge and I was flashed all kinds of cards from various test labs in the areas for guys that had just tested yet those can't be accepted on ASME jobs.

There were plenty of mad ironworkers. The tube welders were used to it.

The Boilermakers Commonarc program is nice in the fact that I can take one test and certify with however many contractors there are to witness the test. Then each contractor updates the continuity through the commonarc program which keeps me current with all the other contractors. Its kinda nice compared to all of the tests I had to take at the jobsite . I have left one companies paper mill working for a specific contractor, then went to another mill within 30 days that belonged to that same company and tested again even though I was still working for the SAME contractor. Thats what "The Mill Required".

Gerald Austin
Iuka, Mississippi

http://www.weldingdata.com