Welding wrought iron grate to cast steel basin. 1

[osoloco]

Gentlemen: I would like a welding procedure to weld a wrought iron grate to a cast steel scupper. The scupper is embedded in a concrete bridge deck. The bridge was built in the early 1970s. I do not have the grade of wrought iron of the specification of the cast steel.
Many thanks!!

 

[MintJulep]

Braze instead.

 

[EdStainless]

I'll second the braze option.
I doubt that the grate is actually wrought iron, but either way don't try to weld.

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P.E. Metallurgy

 

Concur.

"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."

 

[osoloco]

Posting a drawing of the drain assembly.
Thanks for the advice.[URL unfurl="true"]https://res.cloudinary.com/engineering-com/image/upload/v1584123352/tips/Scupper_grate_ftb1dw.pdf[/url]

 

[EdStainless]

You are in a bind here. The cast steel in likely weldable, but maybe not without special procedures.
But you have no idea what the grate is.
Actual wrought iron is very high in P and unweldable by standard fusion methods.
And with this vague description even if you figure out what one of them is, you don't know about the next one.
I was in a big city not long ago. I noticed that access covers in the sidewalks had been welded down.
They had used a Ni or SS weld rod. Of the 20-30 that I looked at only 2 or 3 didn't have cracked welds.


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P.E. Metallurgy

 

[arunmrao]

These gratings are cast in gray iron or Ductile Iron. Neenah Foundries are pioneers in this type of castings. I will certainly not recommend welding.

 

[osoloco]

Many thanks for the advice.
I have almost 200 of these.
I will be fighting this for a year.
Best regards

 

Of the 20-30 that I looked at only 2 or 3 didn't have cracked welds.

Good to know I'm not the only one who can't walk past a weld without inspecting it

"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."

 

[DAVIDSTECKER]

It looks like your steel frame is pretty beefy, can you weld tabs, maybe 1/4" thick, to the frame to hold the grate down?
FYI, the drawing calls out ASTM A-207 for the Grate.
Best regards, David

 

[bridgebuster]

When I opened your attachment the first thing I said was "OMG! Vicksburg". I worked for Dr. Pavlo from 1981 until his death in 1989. After 40+ years in this business, Pavlo was still the best place I ever worked at. As an aside, Vicksburg was the prototype for the Silver Memorial Bridge between Point Pleasant W VA & Galiapolis OH. Anyway, sentimentality aside, I was thinking along the lines of David, adding a tab plate, see attached sketch. It's based on a similar detail we use on some NYSDOT projects with 18"x18" scuppers.

If it's not too much trouble, could you tell me the names of the people on the drawing? When I worked there, some of the Vicksburg crew were still around.

 

[bridgebuster]

@osoloco, I'm not trying to hijack your thread. I suppose it's the circumstances we're living in at the moment. Your thread made my day. It gave me the opportunity to reminisce about the great times I had at Pavlo.

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[osoloco]

Guys,
Thank you for the suggestions. I am considering welding straps or tabs and considering using a J-hook to secure the grates. I am looking into the procedures to weld carbon steel to A536 cast steel. The J-hook would snag the end of the drain pipe. I am a bit concerned about fatigue with either solution.
Best regards, OsoLoco

 

[gtaw]

ASTM A536 65-45-12 is ductile iron, not cast steel. The carbon is over 3%. The ductile iron basically reverts to a chilled cast iron if one attempts to weld it without following the proper procedure. The Ductile Iron Institute does have some recommendations on how ductile iron can be welded. I recommend you visit their website.

Best regards - Al

 

[osoloco]

gtaw, Thank you for the correction. That is what I get for not verifying info on drawings. This is probably why previous attempt to secure the grates by stick welding has failed! BTW, Interesting site. More to learn, thanks!

 

[osoloco]

Bridgebuster:
Designed by: G.T.
Drawn by: E.W., A.S.B., S.K., E.C.
Checked by: N.I., Y.C.C.
Revisions: A.L.P.

 

[gtaw]

Can you say "rubber stamp".

It wouldn't be the first time people accept the information about the material listed by the drawing at face value.



Best regards - Al

 

[btrueblood]

The drawing is calling out the scuppers as A536 Grade 65-45-12 "cast steel", but that ASTM spec. is for ductile cast iron. We buy a lot of parts made from that material. Ductile iron can be welded, but it's tricky, and some foundries have the chemistry control to do it, others not so much. You risk hot cracking every weld due to the high carbon content. Bronze tig brazing would work well (at least, it does for us).

 

[bridgebuster]

Thanks osoloco. I recognize 4 names.I worked under GT on the design of the bridge over the Mississippi River at Gramercy LA; cantilever truss. One day I'll take a drive to see it and Vicksburg. I have a friend in Jackson that I've been meaning to visit.

 

My experience is that the more signatures a document has, the less it has actually been reviewed and the more likely it is to be deficient. Six (6) signatures is the mark of an overwrought and unwieldy quality system.

I advise against showing the names of people who don't know about it.

"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."