WF Flange

[jte]

One of the fun aspects of working with vessels is that there seems to be something new every week. Particularly when you do a lot of work with old equipment. Got a new one today: I'm looking at a 1960 vintage drawing of a Section VIII vessel by CF Braun. The nozzle schedule lists the usual stuff, with couplings, weld neck flanges, and stubs. It also lists several nozzles, ranging from NPS 3 to NPS 16, with WF flanges. The photo of one of these WF flanges has me thinking that perhaps it is a slip on flange... Needless to say, I cannot confirm the inner fillet weld while the vessel is in service (yes, I'm enquiring about the possibility of an RT to help with this). The only consistent thing about the nozzles with WF flanges is that they all have internal projections listed. Not sure why that would matter - If I were designing it today, I'd call out the internal projection and use a WN flange.

So... Does anybody out there have experience with a WF flange and what it might be?

jt

 

[racookpe1978]

Just a guess: Weld Face ?

 

[GenB]

Be careful. Some of the older flanges were just socket weld flanges... Welded from the outside only.

 

[JStephen]

Well, what good is Google if you can't look up a simple little problem like that?

Oops, didn't work. A gazillion references to WF beam flanges.

Googling WD doesn't give anything useful.

I did find a listing of abbreviations that included BWF = Butt-Weld Female End and SWF = Socket-Weld Female End. So maybe WF is generic Welded/Female flange?

W could be Wrought, as opposed to cast iron. I find this mainly applied to ells, not to flanges, though.

The 1954 Ladish catalog is online, and it doesn't seem to include any WF flanges. And the common slip-on, weld-neck, and socket-weld fittings are all called by the same names we use today.

 

[Duwe6]

You might take a couple of thickness readings on the straight neck; I'm thinking that they might be similar to the Extended Weld-Necks of today. Might be wrong though, as you usually don't need any internal projection on an EWN flange. And if you are x-raying, you will need an approximate thickness so the radiographer can figure an exposure time. Too much or too little radiation on the film, and the shot was wasted.

 

[tankman64]

What does it say about flange rating and material, could be some clues there? It may be "wide face" aka flat face. Could be a AWWA slip-on which I think is flat face.

 

[tankman64]

What does it say on the stamping, assuming its stamped that is?

 

[jte]

Folks-

Thanks for the responses! The flanges in question are at a facility a few thousand miles away from me so I can't get out and look at them personally.

JStephen - Yep, I like

http://www.lmgtfy.com/

as well...

The nozzle neck is listed as Sch. 60, so we have some idea of the thickness of the connection in general.

Duwe6 - by "extended WN", is that what I'd call a Long Weld Neck (finally recognized by B16.5 an edition or two ago), or would that be something else? If LWN, then there should be no mention of nozzle neck schedule, so we can rule that out.

The rating and facing for all of the flanges on the vessel, including those identified as WN, is "300# RF". This would exclude flat face. Material is listed for all flanges as A181-1.

Can't see the stamping, might ask the local engineer to wander out and see if he can shoot a photo for me.

jt

 

[tankman64]

Assume you mean ...those identified as WF...? You said it looked like a slip-on but Sch 60 would imply otherwise. My guess is a weld neck. Out of interest why do you need to know?

 

[tankman64]

Sorry, I just noticed that the pipe is Sch 60 not the flange.

 

[LittleInch]

If you search google you can eliminate the ones you don't want (-beam). This manages to find a few references to Welding Flange, i.e. a flange face as a simple plate with the holes drilled in without a small collar on one side. So it looked something like a slip on flange but without the beefed up neck part.

I can only assume these were for low pressure connections where someone wanted to save a little bit of metal or had calculated that the connecting pipe was thick enough.

My motto: Learn something new every day

Also: There's usually a good reason why everyone does it that way

 

[JStephen]

jte, I wasn't trying to give you a hard time on the Google. It's an application where Google ought to work, and as I pointed out, I didn't find much that way. I was just now trying again, using LittleInch's trick (which I guess I knew, but didn't think to use).

Anyway, hubless flanges are commonly called plate flanges, and I've not heard them referred to as WF flanges. They are made to AWWA C207, perhaps other standards, and are available in different pressure ratings.

I find WF flanges here, which are not normal flanges but threaded fittings that weld to a tank. If your fittings are fairly small, they might be that.

http://lenzinc.com/productfamily_list.php?id=TkRnJTNE

From an Amoco publication, "WF - The service code. This refers to the contents of the pipe. In this instance, WF refers to Fire Water." This in reference to the code used for a pipeline.

From a Balon publication, "WF" is "Weld x Flange" meaning a valve with flanged on one end, weld stub on the other.

I see a reference to a "Wall Flange" also.

 

[LittleInch]

Something like this pops up..

http://mdmetric.com/tech/NSflanges2.pdf

called a "plain welding flange" Quite odd, but clearly can be specified if you don't need the slip on bit

My motto: Learn something new every day

Also: There's usually a good reason why everyone does it that way

 

[jte]

Folks-

Thanks for your thoughts on this. I'm not sure I'll get a chance to clarify further what these flanges are. Again, the only commonality is that these nozzles had internal projections while those receiving WN flanges did not.


JStephen-

No offense taken. I've a much thicker skin than that! I'd be surprised if these are plate flanges, but they could be.


LittleInch-

Interesting link. Can't say I've ever seen plate flanges in a catalog, but I suppose it makes sense. I usually would specify something like "1/2 in thick plate flanges drilled to NPS 6 CL-150 bolting" when I'm trying to recommend a flange pair for bolted up internals for which a bit of leakage won't ever be noticed, particularly when it's a retrofit in some location where a CL-150 flange isn't likely to be an off the shelf item.

jt