what makes an engineer an engineer?

[fire_safety]

What makes an engineer an engineer if all he does is apply standards? As an beginner engineer myself, I often question this? i may be young and still on my entry level to see the whole picture, but what you all think? ( more specifically about fire protection engineering as it's my job and this sub-group interest too )

 

[skdesigner]

Sprinkler design is heavily standardized, and probably to a slightly lesser extent fire alarm design (though I can neither confirm or deny this, as I've never designed a fire alarm system). There are facets of fire protection engineering that rely far more on engineering judgment (egress calculations, alternative solutions to prescriptive compliance, heat release rate and combustibility analysis etc.) than standards.

We don't have NICET certification in Canada, so every sprinkler system design needs to be signed and sealed by a Professional Engineer. Of the 40,000+ professional engineers registered with my Province's engineering association, I might be able to name 10 that could design a sprinkler system. And of those 10, I know maybe 2 that could do a real sprinkler design (that can be cut and pre-fabbed with a slight chance of actually fitting the building). It might seem like I'm embellishing those numbers. I'm not.

Is an engineer still an engineer if he makes his living rubber stamping sprinkler drawings without knowing the difference between a dry pendent and a dry valve? Sure, why not. Thousands of sprinkler designs get done here every year, and every single one has a stamp on them.

Asking idealistic, philosophical questions is sort of a hallmark of a new person in the industry. After 10 or 20 years in this grind, you'll be able to answer your own question. And the answer will probably be something along the lines of 'who cares if I'm considered an 'engineer' or not, as long as the money is right and the work is interesting enough for me to drag myself out of bed year after year'.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, don't sweat job descriptions too much. You chose a great business to be in, and being an engineer or not has very little bearing on how good the money is. Give it 5 or 10 years when half the designers in the business retire and there is no one to replace them. Then we'll really be talking.

 

[cdafd]

Ok agree somewhat with SKd.

I am far from an engineer or designer.

Not sure what they teach in FPE school, but, seeing the industry, my answer is,,,,

More than likely 90% of the time you can figure out what the books are saying, and do your job.....

To me it is that 10%, where you spend a lot of time reading the books, trying to figure out if your decisions are right, keep reading the books, calling others to validate, etc. It is that 10% where you can call yourself an engineer.

It is almost the same in most industries. People walk in and can do the job blindfolded, till do do goes wrong, than the good ones figure out a solution

Amazon is always hiring!!!

 

[LCREP]

I spent 35 years on the insurance side as a property loss control engineer. I do not have an engineering degree. Everyday was different based on what I was evaluating ie manufacturing, warehousing, chemical facilities. Something spending 3-5 days on site evaluating the fire, water, and burglary exposures ie where we can we suffer a loss. What systems did they have in place or not to prevent a loss from occurring. So you had to understand the operation and the hazards associated with the operation. Knowledge of NFPA, I worked in the US, regarding sprinkler systems , flammable hazard, fire detection, fire protection testing, etc.

We were involved in new construction ie reviewing fire protection plans, providing our “insurance recommendations” for the project, visiting the site to ensure the fire protection systems were installed as per the plans and following through when they did not. I sat through many a meeting where I was the only insurance person and the rest were engineers or site owners trying to get me to change my evaluation. Why because if I told the underwriter the site had problems they paid more $$ insurance premium. I can go on but you get the idea.

Anyway just another career to investigate if you are bored…lol

Tom

 

[FacEngrPE]

Even when a design situation is well covered by "standards" the engineer still must apply the standards to the task, and fill in all of the remaining gaps not covered by the standards. If the standard being applied provides an approach that is not fit to task, the engineer needs to figure it out (this includes knowing to ask advice from others), and get the approval authority(s) to accept the fit to task solution.

In other words - Engineers need to understand what they are designing. Cooking up solutions to meet standards is only part of our requirement.