What the heck is Systems Engineeing?

[TheMasterMechanic]

In my quest for grad schools, I have come across a few schools that offer a masters in systems engineering. I had never heard of it and figured it was a money making scheme and ignored it. Recently, however, I got my monthly issue of money magazine which had an article about the best job growth and Numero Uno on the list was systems engineer. They described it as dealing with the project managment aspect of engineering. Wikipedia has a nice article about it and also. My question is this: Does anyone have a Masters degree in Systems Engineeing? If so, what are your opinions of it? What did you learn? Would you do it again?

Thanks Guys/Gals!

 

[KENAT]

I just have a bachelors in Aerospace Systems Engineering and I'm not sure it's the same thing.

The systems aspect of my course was more about learning the fundamentals of what the various systems did/could do etc. presumably with intent that you vaguely understood it when talking with experts in each field while working as some kins of project engineer or project manager but we never really did much of that actual stuff.

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[SomptingGuy]

Systems engineering deals with the interconnectedness of everything ... in a holistic way.

- Steve

 

[KENAT]

Using a synergistic approach to leverage capabilities...

Sorry.

It can be a bit management speakish.

I think similar was discussed here before now, though maybe just about systems engineering not specifically a Masters.

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[SomptingGuy]

Sorry. Bad Douglas Adams references in there.

- Steve

 

[ShaggyPE]

I am not a systems engineer, but the older gentleman that is in the office across the hall is. I have shared many a lunch with him. A masters appears typically necessary because no one gets a bachelors in systems... doesn't exist. It is kinda a thing to move up in the ranks. In my experience (limited) systems engineers typically have an electrical background. Like Sompting said, they deal with the interconnectedness of the whole thing... the system. From what I see, they deal a lot with requirements, and writing tests to validate and verify the the device meets requirements. See the link below for more info:

http://www.incose.org/

-Dustin
Professional Engineer
Certified SolidWorks Professional
Certified COSMOSWorks Designer Specialist
Certified SolidWorks Advanced Sheet Metal Specialist

 

[Twoballcane]

I think their scope is to meld the software and hardware together to come up with the final end item. I also agree it is mostly Electrical/Software drive field. In todays day and age everything is run by software or firmware.

Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."

 

[KENAT]

Funny, a senior guy at LHM told me to add Systems Integration (or maybe it was engineering) to my resume because I'd done a whole bunch of A/C stores integration work. However, virtually all of it was mechanical, with a tiny bit of management of the electrical/software side.

Systems Engineering really means different things to different folks in different industry sectors.

Here (machine design) the systems engineers are mostly (all?) from a mechanical background though with some knowledge of electrical and software.

I swear it was touched on before but a quick search only turned up thread731-233243 and I'm sure there had been another.

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[mauricestoker]

I took one grad course in systems engineering. Fortunately, it was an evening class and their was a bar next door. Watching paint dry would be more fun.

Systems engineering I was taught was very much like life cycle analysis, to include risk. The engineering economic analysis went deeper into the subject than undergrad and has been very useful. Mathematical modeling and simulations was much like the undergrad, no additional depth. From their we went to probability and statistics, queueing and scheduling, and system test and eval. That part was useful later for commissioning (wasn't called that then).

From their, it went to design basics, design for reliability, maintainability, human factors, economic feasibility, and support. That part was useful for a framework when doing biddability, constructability, and operability review for major construction.

The class could have taken half as much time if it didn't linger on terminology and exact wording, nit-picking, and inventing new terms to describe old subjects. The guy I had teaching was into maintenance and logistics for major systems, so most of the programs and scenarios run were on that subject. I haven't used any of that. The book was pretty good (Blanchard and Fabrycky) and I still use it as a reference 25 years later.

 

[SomptingGuy]

Sensible hat on now...

Where I work, the systems engineers seem to manage projects that span multiple disciplines (mech/elec/control). Like hybrid vehicles.



- Steve

 

[Waidesworld]

Here's a link....right from BS HQ

http://www.incose.org/practice/whatissystemseng.aspx

drawn to design, designed to draw

 

[rbulsara]

I always thought System Engineering is a position or description of work portfolio rather than a subject of academic degree.

But then there are degrees for similar things like MBA and stuff. Still a system engineer for a IT world would a lot different than one for a food processing plant and so on.

Rafiq Bulsara

http://www.srengineersct.com

 

[IRstuff]

Systems engineering in Aerospace/Defense deals with understanding and parsing system requirements to derive/allocate subsystem requirements.

As such, an SE deals with determining the functional partitioning and flowdown of electronics, mechanics, optics, and software.

TTFN

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[mauricestoker]

I think for a mechanical, it's easier to think of systems engineer in terms of commissioning. Of course now, commissioning applies to envelope, Division 22, 26, 27, 28, etc.

A lot of the systems engineering that was taught would really be a part of logistics. Not sure if there is a difference between logistics engineering and systems engineering.

Automotive industry would be a perfect example. If you want to sell parts, design to fail the day after warranty expires. Design for failure was a big part of the undergrad materials class I had. The prof gave really good examples of how one component, like a spring, could be designed for a fairly accurate number of cycles, and then making the spring an integral part of an assembly. Based on the expected failure rate and cost of replacement parts, life cycle projections for materials, profit, stockage, etc. would be performed.

 

[ARenko]

In my company we have a loose group of regional engineers managing projects involving mechanical, electrical, controls, etc.... Someone tried to organize that group and have a central control of those projects - he called it Systems Engineering and labelled us systems engineers. So, sorta like what SomptingGuy said at my company.

 

[ShaggyPE]

The class could have taken half as much time if it didn't linger on terminology and exact wording, nit-picking, and inventing new terms to describe old subjects.

Without lingering on terminology and exact wording... it wouldn't be Systems Engineering.

-Dustin
Professional Engineer
Certified SolidWorks Professional
Certified COSMOSWorks Designer Specialist
Certified SolidWorks Advanced Sheet Metal Specialist

 

[GregLocock]

SE is widely used in automotive engineering. I have argued before that it is not much use as a masters until you have a fair amount of expertise under your belt. or beer.

Rather like six Sigma, you can concentrate on the new fancy tools they give you to play with, which are the old tools uploaded to a PC, or you can use it to get things done. To do the latter requires experience.



Cheers

Greg Locock

SIGlease see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[MikeHalloran]

A good SE divides a problem space into chunks,
- then for each chunk, defines a module in solution space,
- then outlines how each module will attack its assigned chunk of the problem,
- then, most importantly, defines the interfaces between the modules,
- and how they will interact with each other,
- before any of the modules are available.

A not so good SE does the same thing, except that later, after much money has been spent, we find out that some of the modules are unrealizable, or some of the interfaces are not wide enough.

When it's done well, it looks easy.
I don't think it actually is easy.




Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[stanier]

From what I have gleaned is that it is doing "old fashioned project management" really well.

 

[moltenmetal]

At my uni, systems eng was another way to get girls into engineering, and was greatly appreciated by the other disciplines for that reason. The systems program in my year was ~40% girls.

Sadly I've never encountered one in my career, so what they do when they grow up is still a mystery to me.