I signed a set of 100% engineering plans 2 years ago for a local governmental agency that was to be let at that time. Due to budgetary cutbacks the project was postponed. Now the local agency wants to dust the plans off and do the project. The project is reconstruction of a residential street with new curb and gutter. Since time has passed, changes that have occured are sanitary sewer modifications and improvements, residential driveway improvements, and certain constuction laws. What are my duties as a Professional engineer? Do I have an obligation to update the plans and construction documents and restamp them?
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What would be your standard practice as a Professional Engineer? 1
- Thread starter rcspiel
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MiketheEngineer
Structural
A BINGO for dik. Our caompany says that anything over a year old needs to reviewed/updated and we get paid for it.
Ditto on Mike's and dik's comments. Tell them you would be glad to review the plans and update to current standards and changed geometry...and this is what you will charge for doing so. Tell them also, if they refuse to pay you for this, that you will write a letter to your state board and to the parent organization of the governmental agency requiring that your plans not be used as there have been changes under the premise of use of the plans.
Not only would the plans require updating because of the changed conditions (with a fee to match), but the survey as well (again, with a fee to match).
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"Is it the only lesson of history that mankind is unteachable?"
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msquared48
Structural
Seems like it would come into the new EPA erosion control regs that came into effect here about 18 months ago - much more stringent than the previous.
The delay was not your fault, but their decision. You are entitled to fees unless your contract says otherwise.
Due to the timeline, draw up a new proposal for services and outline what needs to be done in it. If they refuse it, do as Ron says. If they do, they would be stupid, for the cost of another engineer stepping in will be more than your fee.
Heck, he stamp you put on the original set may have expired too...
Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
The delay was not your fault, but their decision. You are entitled to fees unless your contract says otherwise.
Due to the timeline, draw up a new proposal for services and outline what needs to be done in it. If they refuse it, do as Ron says. If they do, they would be stupid, for the cost of another engineer stepping in will be more than your fee.
Heck, he stamp you put on the original set may have expired too...
Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
- Thread starter
- #8
msquared48 -
Yes, your right with new EPA rules. This has been addressed in the special provisions. Do stamps expire even if you have renewed your license?
Everyone-
I don't see a public health and safety issue with the current state the plans are in. Is it acceptable practice to do field modifications for the changes?
Yes, your right with new EPA rules. This has been addressed in the special provisions. Do stamps expire even if you have renewed your license?
Everyone-
I don't see a public health and safety issue with the current state the plans are in. Is it acceptable practice to do field modifications for the changes?
msquared48
Structural
In Washington, yes - we date the stamp as to when the license term expires. We license for two years here. The drawings need to be re-reviewed and re-stamped after that date even though the license may still be current. This helps with counterfitting stamps, but does not solve that problem. That's another topic for another streing though.
As for the field changes, you would have to see what the local jurisdiction will accept.
Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
As for the field changes, you would have to see what the local jurisdiction will accept.
Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
"New EPA erosion control rules?"
Was Washington State not on board with NPDES non-point source until now?
Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -
Was Washington State not on board with NPDES non-point source until now?
Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -
msquared48
Structural
Snohomish County, the county in which I do most of my Civil work, complied on October 1, 2010, enforcing the latest EPA standards on that date.
Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
MiketheEngineer
Structural
And don't forget that IBC changes every three years and local municipalities change whenever they want!!
They also seem to adopt IBC and their "additions" WHENEVER. Some areas are on still IBC2003 - while others are trying to adopt 2012 ??????!!!
I live in St. Louis. We probably have at least a dozen different but mostly the same codes within 50 miles!!!
Drives me nuts - but pays the bills!!!!
They also seem to adopt IBC and their "additions" WHENEVER. Some areas are on still IBC2003 - while others are trying to adopt 2012 ??????!!!
I live in St. Louis. We probably have at least a dozen different but mostly the same codes within 50 miles!!!
Drives me nuts - but pays the bills!!!!
Wow. Georgia has been doing NPDES non-point source permits for construction disturbance for a decade plus.
Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -
Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -
MiketheEngineer
Structural
Yeah - I send all the code officials Christmas cards every year - because without their dumb and stupid rules I couldn't make a living!!
beej67, not so fast.
You are implying that general permit regulations have been in force for some time. There were major changes made to the general permits in 2008.
In addition, there are layers of laws and regulations that govern construction activities in Georgia including federal law and regulations, state law and regulations and local ordinances. In addition, the Green Book is specifically incorporated into the General Permit and, as such, has the force of law. A developer must comply with all of these laws and regulations. However, in resolving ambiguities between these regulations and laws, federal law always trumps state and local law, and state law always trumps local law. However, if local or state law is more stringent, then the developer must comply with the most stringent requirement.
You are implying that general permit regulations have been in force for some time. There were major changes made to the general permits in 2008.
In addition, there are layers of laws and regulations that govern construction activities in Georgia including federal law and regulations, state law and regulations and local ordinances. In addition, the Green Book is specifically incorporated into the General Permit and, as such, has the force of law. A developer must comply with all of these laws and regulations. However, in resolving ambiguities between these regulations and laws, federal law always trumps state and local law, and state law always trumps local law. However, if local or state law is more stringent, then the developer must comply with the most stringent requirement.
Nice Mike!
bimr-
I'm pretty familiar with how it works down here. I was the water resources department manager for the company that drew up the example plans they use in the power point presentation for the Level II course. The compliance hoops changed a bit in 08 when the general permits got reupped, and everyone started having to get their card from SWCC and follow more checklists, but the Green Book itself hasn't changed significantly since the mid 90s.
Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -
bimr-
I'm pretty familiar with how it works down here. I was the water resources department manager for the company that drew up the example plans they use in the power point presentation for the Level II course. The compliance hoops changed a bit in 08 when the general permits got reupped, and everyone started having to get their card from SWCC and follow more checklists, but the Green Book itself hasn't changed significantly since the mid 90s.
Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -
msquared48
Structural
Changed a heck of a lot for us relating to BMP's and what we had to specify on the drawings. A lot more stringent controls now.
Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
You have to show more calcs now, but you were always supposed to be doing those calcs in the first place.
Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -
Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -
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