what would you do? 3

[swivel63]

i left my last firm after i was told i was uncooperative. well that's because i

a. wouldn't design without safety factors
b. i gave the owner's son (head of sales dept.) a one sided discussion on common respect and people's time.

i know of several jobs that are not built as per the engineer's design, the drawings don't match the calculations, and the as built conditions are "underdesigned."

what would you all do with that information?

i'm inclined to leave it alone.

 

[KENAT]

If you're PE don't you have an obligation to report it?

Even as a non PE, if it's a real safety concern rather than just a cost/schedule impact, I believe you have a duty to the public.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies:

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484

 

[swivel63]

yea, i am a PE. but since i'm gone from there, i don't have specific evidence (i.e. calculations)

 

[KENAT]

I'd still contact the licensing board or what ever govt body is responsible.

Tell them your concerns, it's up to them to decide whether to investigate and if so to prove wrong doing.

I've you're concerned about consequences I suppose you could contact them annonymously but they may not take you as seriously.

It's like calling the police because you think a crime is being commited, you don't have to have enough evidence to convict the person before you contact the cops - that's their job.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies:

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484

 

[swivel63]

like the professional licensing board or the building department? i don't believe the engineer did anything wrong, i believe it's the manufacturing firm that didn't build it per the engineer's instructions. yea, it's been something i've been bouncing around in my head for a minute now.

 

[metengr]

i left my last firm after i was told i was uncooperative. well that's because i

a. wouldn't design without safety factors
b. i gave the owner's son (head of sales dept.) a one sided discussion on common respect and people's time.

i know of several jobs that are not built as per the engineer's design, the drawings don't match the calculations, and the as built conditions are "underdesigned."

Sorry, but other than you leaving the firm and (b), the rest of this sounds unbelievable or sour grapes to me.

 

[swivel63]

what's hard to believe? sour grapes would entail that i still wanted to be there.

bear in mind, i was the only engineer in that company. so it's not far fetched to have non-engineers who think they can dictate to an engineer how he designs.

 

[rbulsara]

Swivel:
I feel you did the right thing by leaving a place where you did not feel comfortable. While reporting is ethically right thing to do, you need proofs and ability and resources to defend your allegation. If you do not have them, forget them and work where you feel comfortable.

 

[youngstructural]

swivel63; Not an easy situation, but I am with Kenat on this one... If there are genuinely unsafe jobs, and an office presuring staff to undertake sub-standard design work, you have a duty to report.

Just a couple of quick points:

1. Jobs often deviate from the plans and require small modifications to ensure they comply with code. I'll assume you aren't talking about that kind of thing, but rather about actual "cowboy" work where the contractor is allowed to do as they please.

2. You duty of care is to the public. That's the high school ball that rents the hall that you know doesn't have there right size of bolts, or the correct joist hangers, insufficient/incorrect welds, etc, etc, etc.

3. If it is just a lack of strict adherance to the code, that's probably not the end of the world unless it is genuinely unsafe. If it is genuinely unsafe, then it could very well be the end of your (emotional, professional, etc) life if anything ever happened and you knew you could have reported it.

Just my thoughts,
I wish you well while not envying your position,

YS

B.Eng (Carleton)
Working in New Zealand, thinking of my snow covered home...

 

[swivel63]

ok, can we define big deal? is over stressing something on the order of 50-75 percent of allowable a big deal? i think so, but hey.....what do i know?

 

[KENAT]

Given the situation the building department sounds like a place to start.

You could always talk to them in general terms before making any specific allegations.

Again though, make sure this really is a safety concern as it may have consequences.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies:

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484

 

[TheTick]

What field and/or product?

 

[metengr]

swivel63;
Clue (1)

bear in mind, i was the only engineer in that company. so it's not far fetched to have non-engineers who think they can dictate to an engineer how he designs.

Clue (2)

i don't believe the engineer did anything wrong, i believe it's the manufacturing firm that didn't build it per the engineer's instructions. yea, it's been something i've been bouncing around in my head for a minute now.

Is the engineer in clue (2) above you or another? I thought you were the only engineer at this company? Did you ever stop and think that you might need to re-evaluate yourself so that you can attempt to make others see your position for your next job?

 

[swivel63]

he was an outside consultant that the firm was working with prior to hiring me.

 

[ornerynorsk]

Kenat is right, if there is any question of safety/potential injury or worse involved, you have a legal and moral obligation to report to the appropriate agency. You said you were the only engineer at the firm. That means you have the possibility of being blamed after the fact, if something were to happen. Let's see, does innocent until proven guilty still apply these days? You could find yourself defending your license before the board, or worse, in a courtroom. Whistle blowing is never a comfortable position to be in, but it's better than the alternative.

 

[Lion06]

If you have specific knowledge that members are overstressed by 50%-75%,then you absolutely have a duty to report it. Since you are not the design engineer and you determined this overstress, it wouldn't be that difficult for an independent engineer to evaluate the system and reach the same conclusion, if that is, in fact, accurate.

I think you have a professional responsibility to report it. What would make you NOT report it?

 

[Executnr]

And now that you have posted on a public forum that you feel a project is unsafe, you may be responsible for whatever deaths that occur if you don't report it. (because you have openly admitted it in public)... just a thought.

 

[TrafficDesigner]

Wouldn't any plans that were sealed and submitted to the reviewing agency for approval be a matter of public record for the individual projects?

If that is the case, then you should have no problem retrieving a set. It seems the evidence you are looking for may in fact be public record.

At least you could review them as well as any as-built plans to reach a conclusion as to the validity of your concerns.

If you find errors on the plans and they were not caught on the as-built plans, it seems like this could be enough for you to bring it out in the open.

I struggled with a similar situation years ago where I knew something about a firm but didn't want to appear as "sour grapes" between them and myself. I did the right thing, and I trust you will too.

Good luck to you!

 

[JamesBarlow]

The time to have reported this was when it first happened.

Waiting till after you had a falling out with your employer to be concerned about this is a bad spot to be in. You may have been concerned about it the whole time you were there but as far as everyone else, including all the lawyers who are going to sue you for bringing this up, you weren't.

I can certainly empathize with your situation but now is probably the worst time you could bring this up.

 

[JamesBarlow]

I just read above post and hope it doesn't come across to OP as being jerky or mean in any way. I can empathize with you because I've been there.

Went to work everyday for several years and happily did my job. Got laid off and climbed onto my high horse about all the things I couldn't believe they did and started asking the what should I do questions.

Nearly 10 years later nothing ever did happen despite what I thought at the time. Turns out that the people who make the equipment sometimes do know more than the engineers who design the equipment, and also write the code books.

A lesson I think many of us need to learn.