Whatever Happened to Legal and Moral Boundaries?

[casseopeia]

I knew my last job was not a good place for me, even before they terminated my employment at the end of the year. I started talking to a recruiter who specializes in my field months before I was let go. I feel like I am being put through the ringer. So far I have,

1. Been interviewed over the phone for character and technical knowledge on three separate occasions. I passed those interviews.
2. Taken an on-line test for MS Word
3. Taken an on-line test for Excel proficiency
4. Taken an on-line test probing my personal interests, attitudes and values
5. Taken in on-line test for behavioral style.

I assume I did well on the on-line tests. I have been passed on to the interview-in-person stage. But first I have to fill out and return,

1. An Application for Employment which asks my employment record back to the very beginning
2. I must sign a document that describes my rights in the State of California, and
3. I must also sign a Disclosure and Authorization form, including my social security number and birthdate allowing this potential employer to complete a criminal background check, a credit check and run a DMV record.

This is a private company. It is not a bank or other financial institution. It is not part of the judicial branch of the United States. I am not applying for a job as a swat team sharp shooter. I can't image that I am applying for a job where I must routinely handle in excess of $10,000 in cash. I mention all of these things because there are laws in California about what a potential employer can get from you PRIOR to being hired. As of January 1, employers are very restricted on when they can run a credit check. You pretty much have to be a bank or a law enforcement agency or similar.

The Application covers the "have you ever been convicted of a felony, plead guilty or arrested and currently out on bail pending trial" question. I don't have a problem with that. But I do have a problem offering up my social security number and birthdate so that they can run a DMV and credit check. It's the credit check that I have the most trouble with. Mine is not great, some of it my fault, some of it not. I just don't think it's their business.

As an alternative, I have offered to bring my own copy of my 10-year DMV record which should now be completely clean with zero points. I have considered offering to do a drug test and have them fingerprint me instead of the credit and criminal checks. I have no criminal record. I've never been arrested and my drug test should come up clean, but a friend said not to offer to do those and just go ahead and give them my SSN and birthdate.

I am really, really not comfortable with that. I am somewhat indignant because I have been put through a battery of tests for a job and have not been told for what position I am being considered. The Word and Excel proficiency tests were something that I would give to someone being considered for the Steno Pool. The tests asked none of the basics and was mostly keyboard short cuts. The credit and criminal background would be appropriate if I were being considered for company accountant or corporate signatory. Neither one of those positions would have required the hour long technical interview asking me to describe the exact steps required for installing a 4-ply built up roof as well as describing what a 'grout curtain' does.

In addition to the endless forms and tests, they have requested that I also bring in copies of recent reports, drawings, details and proposals I have completed for my employer WTF! Are they kidding?

Am I over reacting to this?


"Gorgeous hair is the best revenge." Ivana Trump

 

[JedClampett]

I thought I covered that. If there's a legitimate reason, that's fine. Sick spouse, legitimate.

 

[MacGyverS2000]

I guess I read your response incorrectly. It certainly comes down to "But how do you know?" You can't ask them what caused the low credit score (unless you want a visit from their lawyer), you can only run their score and cross your fingers.

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[casseopeia]

The more research I do the more alarming all of this looks. There has been an explosion of businesses that will perform pre-employment background checks. The information that they check includes;

1. Verifying education. I have my college transcript.
2. Verifying employment. I have paycheck stubs going back 15-20 years. I don't have my part-time paycheck stubs from summer employment during college, but I'm pretty sure my time selling candy and waitressing are of no interest to this employer.
3. DMV record. I have a copy of my own 10-year DMV recored that I got for $5 the last year when I renewed my license.
4. Criminal and arrest record. This is the most difficult for me because I have no arrest or criminal record and it's tough to prove a negative. I've offered up my fingerprints, however. I have been bonded before, but that was 10 years ago.
5. Citizenship. I have a US birth certificate.
6. Credit check. No longer allowed in many states, including California because employers have been illegally using bad marks on your credit report to eliminate candidates from being considered for employment without ever asking what caused the black marks to start with.

The downside is that you are giving up personal information that can be used for identity theft to every single potential employer. I must have applied to 50-60 places before I got my last job. Every time someone runs a credit check, it slightly downgrades your rating. I find it suspicious that there are SO MANY companies clamoring for the social security numbers and birth dates of the legions of unemployed desperate for a job. Who regulates these companies? I am forced to give up my personal information to some 24 year old HR manager who then turns it over to Internet Background Checker of the Week.

I have had my identity stolen twice. Once from a post office box. The person using my information managed to cash a check for about $4,000 for the sale of shares in a key personnel insurance policy I had. I have been working with an attorney for over 18 months now to retrieve the money, minus the percentage that goes to the attorney. The second time I traced the theft back to a period of time when I was a research subject at Stanford University and their computer records were hacked. I still have bad marks on my credit report that I have to explain every single time I rent an apartment or apply for a new credit card. I also have some of my own causes for black marks on my credit report, but it should in no way affect my ability to get a job in my field.

The other thing that I've found is that employers are using the need to run a background check as a way to find out the age of a potential employee. At my interview for my last employer my age was brought up as a potential additional cost to to them during salary negotiations because most of their technical staff were right out of school and in their early twenties and their health premiums low. Mine would be higher than theirs because I was closer to the age of their parents. So I had to negotiate a job where I purchased my own health care outside of their plan.

The EEOC has ruled that while a potential employer cannot ask you your age, they can require that you supply your birth date for the purpose of performing a background check. They justify this ruling by saying that the employer cannot use your age as a reason not to hire you. I imagine there are a vast number of employers out there concerned that anyone over 40 is going to cost them too much in health care, but are not about to admit it so they are not sued for discrimination.

In California, pot smokers and cokeheads are better protected.


"Gorgeous hair is the best revenge." Ivana Trump

 

[MacGyverS2000]

Every time someone runs a credit check, it slightly downgrades your rating.

Not necessarily. Your score drops a few points with the first check (single digit drop), but a number of successive checks within a short period of time (I believe the time is 60 days, but it may be less) are considered as one and do not further harm your score.

So you can at least sleep a bit better at night on that one point... but your other points are quite valid, and the health insurance is one problem I mentioned in an earlier thread. Unfortunately, "illegal" doesn't always mean "I can stop you from doing it."

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[cvg]

recommend you go and apply in person, hand written - not an online form and if they ask for personal information, indicate you will provide it as needed when you are hired. If they want to see before hand, say you will bring it in but for security purposes, no copies can be made.

 

[IRstuff]

"I believe the time is 60 days, but it may be less) are considered as one and do not further harm your score."

Only partially correct. Multiple checks for home loans within a 45 day period are OK. For anything else, it's BAD, since it implies you're desperately hunting for credit.

TTFN
faq731-376

 

[MacGyverS2000]

IR, the 45 days thing rings a bell...

I know it's not limited to home loans. Also car loans, and others. If the request comes from a department store / credit card company, then yes, that can be bad... from utility companies, for example, no.

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[GTstartup]

Here you go.

"While all credit inquiries are recorded and displayed on credit reports for a period of time, credit inquiries that were made by the owner (self-check), by an employer (for employee verification) or by companies initiating pre-screened offers of credit or insurance do not have any impact on a credit score."