What's the most usefull degree for product design? 3

[davidinindy]

I am going to continue my education and get at least a Bachelors degree. I have an AAS in drafting/cad now, that I got in 1993. I looked into going back to school once before, and they said that my credits were too old, and I'd have to retake many classes. Then they went on to say that I might be able to test out of some. I really would like to pick up where I left off, but wonder if that's smart. My general ed classes I'm sure I could, but I would probably need to retake the math. CAD kinda took a lot of what I learned and made it unneccesary. In other words, it does the math for you, so you don't use what you learned every day.
Anyway, What degree would you recommend? I want to do product or machine design. I want a degree that will be pretty universal.

 

[PSE]

Yes CAD can do math but you will still need the background to be able to verify that the result it is indeed correct. As for the degree, think about the type of design work that interests you. That should help determine the coursework and degree to go after. Product/machine design encompasses quite a bit. Mechanical is an obvious start though it would be helpful to have some electrical and controls thrown in the mix. If you wanted to concentrate on electrical it would still be useful to throw in a mechanical course or two.

The closest thing to a "universal" degree might be in Physics or Mathematics. The problem is, they tend to be heavily theoretical and therefore less marketable until you are in the advanced degree levels and want to do research. I have not encountered offerings of a systems engineering program. You tend to get that capability only through practical experience.

In any case, the school you attend will be happy to allow you to take as many courses as you want. After all, you are the one paying for them. Good luck.

 

[EngJW]

If you are inclined towards any type of machine design then a BSME would be the way to go. It is a very well rounded degree and it also allows you to have a concentration in specific areas, such as systems, vibrations, materials, and so on.

Almost all courses have a mathematical foundation. It is assumed that you are proficient in your basic high school algebra and trig. You will get a heavy concentration of calculus followed by differential equations. Calculus is not difficult and the good thing about it is that you can see its physical significance. It is necessary for an understanding of motion and any process that changes over time. However, you have to have they algebra down or else it will be quite difficult.

Your cad background will be useful to you later on. Companies used to have engineers, designers, draftsmen, and clerks. Now an engineer has to be all of these. Try to get into solid modeling instead of 2d drafting, if you haven't already.

Best of luck.

 

[davidinindy]

I've been doing solid modeling almost exclusively for 4-5 years. We've left the 2D detailing to the junior designers.
I really like CAD, and don't want to become an engineer who doesn't do any design work. Does that make sense?
Has anyone here gone back to school after being out for 10 years or more? Was it difficult? How much did you retain from before? My math is still pretty strong. I took algebra, trig and calculus in college. I could use tan, and sin to get draft angles when doing mold design with my eyes closed, so those are still pretty fresh. Some of the other functions I'd have to refresh my memory.
Bottom line is, most jobs that pay what I want require a degree beyond an associates, even though I think I could perform the tasks based on my experience. I'm not saying that I'm as smart or have all the skills and knowledge of a ME, but in some positions, I think it's overkill, and I could do the job for less than if they hired an ME.

 

[ProbaSci]

If you are going to invest the time and effort to go back and get a degree, don't sell the engineering degree short becuase of difficulty. It will probably be more work, but consider the security and financial return on your investment as compared to another associate type degree.

Perhaps you could start by finding job openings that seem to fit the description of what you want to do. Then check the requirements (and these are usually minimum) and preferences for the posting. Get on the phone and try to find the person that will supervise the position and see if you can talk with them about what they would consider necessary/desirable.

If you do go back and are worried about math then you maybe able to take some of the classes at local/community colleges and transfer them, but make sure you verify that you can do this. Also check for smaller colleges to get your degree. Generally, I think smaller schools/class sizes are more responsive to helping students in your situation as opposed to big state u where its sink or swim mentality.

Finally, even though the math is important, I've found that the math I did in class really has little relation to the math I've done on the job. Most of my experience with math involves coding it in a computer with limited hand calcs. I can count on one hand the times I've tried to integrate a function manually.

http://www.probasci.com

-
Implantable FEA for medical device manufacturers

 

[plasgears]

If you go the degree route, make it ME with a subsequent degree in EE. This is a good combination. You can get the EE with less additional credits than the ME because of duplicate reqts.

(ME's are weak in EE, and EE's are weak in ME.)

 

[IRstuff]

> There is no such thing as a universal degree, with the possible exception of the ones already mentioned and possibly English Lit, which is useful for just about any non-degreed position.

> What specific aspect of product design are you interested in? Mechanical or electrical or other? YOU need to determine what will still get you out of bed to get to work 20 yrs from now.

> Be sufficiently general so that you do not wind up over-specialized. Be flexible.

> DON'T ignore the math. A designer has different constraints than a CAD operator or a CAD analyst. No designer can survive long without being able to do back-of-the-envelope calculations pertaining to his design. AND he certainly can't afford to CAD every idea and run it through FEA.

TTFN

 

[EngJW]

David,

I have been in engineering since 1975 an almost all I do is design work. That's a pretty big field, so there is a wide range of things you have to do, some very boring and some quite interesting. There are areas where you will do very little engineering, such as program management, depending on the company.

I was a technician for 4 years and decided I would rather work with my brain than my hands. The engineers did all the planning, analyzed all the tests, and provided all the direction. The technicians may have had more skill but they just followed directions.

As far as the math is concerned, I could not do a college math problem now if I had to. But you have to have the math to get through college courses, and if you want to keep up with your field afterward, chances are any technical book you pick up will be based on calculus. I wish to repeat- calculus is not difficult, it is the algebra that can knock you out.

You may also think that by being away that you cannot keep up with the younger students. This is not true at all. A person who has worked for a while is more disciplined. You can always raise a little hell, but you will also know when it is time to hit the books.

 

[davidinindy]

OK. I called IUPUI and talked to the Engineering program director. It turns out that almost all of my classes are transferable. I can also get out of taking more CAD classes since I've been using it for 12 years. (Credentials is what they called it)
I'm getting a copy of my transcript and am going to go meet with him next week. After discussing with him, I think a MET degree is my best choice.
Thanks for all of the input, and by all means, add to it if you want. I'm sure I'm not the only one in this situation.

 

[buzzp]

Careful of an MET degree (I assume this is like EET). Some (most?) companies will not acknowledge this as an engineering degree. I was enrolled, when I first started college, in an EET program. I quickly changed after I realized this was not a full fledged engineering degree. The difference I seen, was the EET was all based on algebra with the formulas given to you and not derived using higher level math. This does affect how you understand the different components of a system.

See what kind of companies are hiring their graduates as well as their job descriptions and this may tell you if the MET is a concern vs the ME.

 

[EngJW]

I would strongly urge you to consider what Buzz is saying. I know some people that got an "engineering technology" degree (assuming that is what your'e looking into). I don't consider them real engineers, and they were real short on math and academic skills. One never got an engineering job. Another became a glorified maintenance technician. Don't invest a big part of your life into something like this unless your mind is really made up.

Go for the real BS degreee. It is harder work, but in 15 or twenty years you may look back and see it as the better choice.

Also, you will never regret getting a degree. Regardless of what kind of job or income you may get, take care of your brain first. No one else will do it for you.

 

[Myndex]

You may also think that by being away that you cannot keep up with the younger students. This is not true at all.

Indeed - human mental development continues into your 40s. I've gone back to school for an occasional class, and there's no doubt it's *much* easier with life experience under your belt.

*Way* easier than working for a living!!! Hah!

If you return to college with practical experience, you'll smoke the kids and leave them in awe. It's easy and fun!

Heh.

Besides, you can get credit for your practical experience, and challenge courses till you're nearly graduated anyway.





A

 

[HgTX]

I want to pile on the "me too" of getting the "real" engineering degree. If you try it and it kicks your ass, then you always have the option of transferring to the eng tech program instead. Better than not trying it and then finding yourself so close and yet so far from being allowed to do certain things you'll run into that require an engineering degree.

Regarding the math, if you want to save on time and credits you could drag out your old math books and see if you can review enough to test out. At worst, it doesn't work and you have to take the math classes after all--but if you barely pass the test, I'd recommend taking the classes anyway because you could probably use a more secure foundation.

I had a six-year gap between my first three semesters of engineering school and the last five semesters, and before I went back I spent a couple of months reteaching myself a semester's worth each of calculus, physics, and statics because I really, REALLY didn't want to repeat anything. Your mileage (and learning style) may vary.

Hg

 

[buzzp]

I have heard that some engineering technologists degrees still teach with calculus but in my experience it didn't.

I would not automatically forget the MET program, it may be what your after depending on what you want to do.
Look at the people coming to hire the new grads at the career fairs and such from the college. They probably have loads of info from employers at their placement office as well as who came to the last career fair.

Oh and dont worry about the age thing, I started college at 21 (at EET program) and after a year went to another college for 4 years. So I was 26 when I graduated. There were lots of others older than me. The young uns are still partying and living off from mom and dad so they dont have the same drive you would have.

One word of advice, I would plan on 4.5 years for an engineering degree. I packed on the classed because I wanted to be done ASAP but I believe I could have learned more had I went at a slower pace. 18-22 credit hours a semester at engineering school is not a good idea. Good luck.

 

[Newstarter]

I'm currently taking a BS technology degree at a pretty well known engineering college in Pa. I've gone to the job fairs and they usually brush me off as an associate degree not worth their time. They do teach Calculus and Differential Equations and even have courses based in them. However, I would follow the advice of the other post and try the regular BS degree first and if it's not what you want or can handle drop down to the technology it all takes the same amount of time and costs. I took 10 years to go back to college and I forgot alot but remembered more. Don't worry about the time difference you can make it up in other ways. Oh yes and Myndex is right it is really fun to dust the kids....Good luck

It's like buying a car check everything before you commit...

 

[ezyjack]

David,

I returned to school after a 13 year hiatus, and found that I was much more disciplined as a "retread". Don't discount your background knowledge from being in the workforce for a few years.

Jack
(A former Hoosier)

PS... I graduated with a BSMET, and am now the Engineering Manager for a S.E. manufacturing company. My math skills weren't neglected at my university, and I have managed to overcome "Diploma Prejudice" through hard work and proving myself. You make your career, your career doesn't make you.


From the Laws of Engineering:
Good, Fast, Cheap.
Pick any two...

 

[Iskit4iam]

I went back after seven years but did calculus after I returned to school. I don't think anyone can get through Diff. Eq. without a solid math foundation. You might propose that the school let you attempt Diff. Equations. If you pass the course success demonstrates your competence so you get your credits.

If I knew back then what I know today about product design I'd still take ME but would have loaded the electives toward controls.

 

[strokersix]

I too was worried about returning to school after about eight years working. It was a little rough for the first few weeks until my brain got back in gear, then I did quite well. My discipline and motivation was much better the second time around!

I did notice that I didn't pick things up quite as quickly as I did when I was younger. Perhaps my brain got slower or perhaps it's just full of more stuff, I don't know. It really wasn't a problem; more an observation.

 

[pso311]

Buzzp,

I am a graduate of an MET program, and feel no disadvantage to "real" mechanical degrees. Our math courses were indeed distilled, but only by eliminating the heavily theoretical. I've found this to be a marketable advantage in the job place, as the courses I've had were very practical and hands-on. We learned the theory, then applied it in tangible ways.

I went the MET route because learning how stuff breaks and then actually breaking it is awesome.

And accredited MET's can sit for the PE just as ME's can.

-Scott

 

[buzzp]

I am sure some/most of these degrees are excellent. Merely wanted to point out this before he enrolled. Definately something everyone should know about so they can make the best decision for them.