When a landlord uses a 'butcher' not a welder to modify a PEMB column 2

A landlord owns several large warehouses in my area, with long-term tenants. The landlord keeps the buildings in good shape, and is proactive in upgrading and maintaining the roofs, wall envelope etc.

He recently upgraded the roof drainage system, providing new 6" Ø PVC pipes to remove roof gutter water, and routed the vertical pipes through the warehouse and then laterally through the two perimeter internal PEMB tapered steel columns.

For some reason (money I assume) he hired the local 'butcher' and not the local experienced fabricator, who proceeded to use a 5" grinder to cut a 8.5" ø hole in the web of the column, so as to install a pipe-segment reinforcement which was to be welded to the web after installation.

The hack-job resulted in gaps of 1"+ around the scribed 'cut', as follows:

A welder he is NOT!

 

[TehMightyEngineer]

I like how the original marked hole location wasn't even correct.

Oh well, if there's not enough time to do it right the first time there's always more than enough time to do it right the second.

Professional Engineer (ME, NH, MA) Structural Engineer (IL)
American Concrete Industries

https://www.facebook.com/AmericanConcrete/

 

[hokie66]

Hiring the butcher was the second mistake. Giving priority to the drain pipe over the building column was the first.

 

[darthsoilsguy2]

My Eyes!..... They Bleed
i'm surprised they considered sleeving the penetration and drain at all.
This makes me think about how there really should be an open thread where people post their most FUBAR construction photos on this site. i might get one going but there are so many good choices.

 

[ajh1]

At least they didn't try to run it through the flange!

 

[MotorCity]

I would tend to believe that the quality of the hole is irrelevant. The fact that you have a hole that large in a column that was probably designed to within 99.99% of the allowable stress is the bigger issue. In other words, even if the hole was made with surgeon like precision, the column probably no longer works.

 

[Settingsun]

Ingenuity, do you know any of the back story? Were you the designer, or know whether this was designed by an engineer?

A couple of previous posts suggest that a pipe penetrating the web is a no-no but that will depend on the circumstances.

 

[dik]

Who did the engineering?

Dik

 

[txeng91]

I would tend to believe that the quality of the hole is irrelevant. The fact that you have a hole that large in a column that was probably designed to within 99.99% of the allowable stress is the bigger issue. In other words, even if the hole was made with surgeon like precision, the column probably no longer works.

99.99% would make them one of the more conservative PEMB engineers. I've heard 103% is pretty standard.

 

[oldestguy]

Hey: Feel sorry for the poor guy. That's the best you are going to get out of a $100 flux core welder that, under the best circumstances with 1/16" metal, will look only a little better. Some might term the result "good enuff". The cutting torch rig that cut the hole cudda done better, but golly the welding tips got lost.

 

[racookpe1978]

6 inch PVC pipe, looks like it is inside an 8" "pipe" (not structural steel!) not-really-welded into an irregular (stress-riser!!!) 10 in dia irregular hole burnt into the web of a thin-walled light PEMB column with a 14 inch web. The 8 inch dia "pipe" might help as a guide to prevent the PVC from being cut as it flexs and bends, but the fact that the PEMB "structural column" is now acting as a pipe support/pipe restraint increases the load axial to the pipe centerline.

No, that column has no strength left, no vibration or fatigue resistance. And now an increased irregular load.

 

[dik]

Can you advise him of your concern and have him get it properly engineered? As it stands, the building is compromised.

Dik

 

[canwesteng]

I think it's ridiculous to say the column has no capacity. If this has been properly engineered, the easy fix is to cut out a bigger hole, full-pen weld in new plate, and properly cut a new hole into the column. If not, all the above minus putting in a new hole, and relocate the drain pipe.

 

[Ingenuity]

Hiring the butcher was the second mistake. Giving priority to the drain pipe over the building column was the first.

hohie66 - ain't that the truth.

Backstory: PEMB designed and constructed in mid 80's. I am not involved with the original nor current engineering/design of this building or repair, however, a PE who is a friend of mine is a friend of the building owner. You see where this is going! Building owner says to PE that he HAS to re-route the piping and CANNOT loose any net lease space so wishes to cut a SMALL hole in the column web. I believe the PE did a sketch or two of the proposed hole size and reinforcement, and expected that a competent fabricator/welder would undertake the work. Fast forward to where we are today - I get a call from PE to see if I can "take a look at the column" because I am pretty handy with a welder - I go take a look and see this monster! I was expecting a neat field flame-cut edge, with a weld that I may have to 'resurrect'...walking away, shaking my head...

 

[Settingsun]

OK, so I'll give the engineer the benefit of the doubt. You say it's a warehouse so perhaps this is actually a bending member primarily and the loss of web is unimportant. Even if it's a compression member, it may be governed by buckling in which case the web is again relatively unimportant. After all, it's still got more steel than a truss or a castellated beam.

 

[Ingenuity]

You say it's a warehouse so perhaps this is actually a bending member primarily

A typical US tapered steel column in a frame, light vertical loading, CMU/block perimeter walls - like a "portal frame" in AU, but in the US the design is done by the PEMB (pre-engineered metal building) company and they often use built-up members and seldom use UB/WF haunches at column/rafter connections, like is done in AU.

Maybe a market for cellular/castellated column sections to accommodate building owners and their 'butchers'

 

[hokie66]

If it is in a low moment area of the column, the intended repair would have probably been fine. It is just the workmanship which has ruined it. Like canwesteng said, they need to get a competent tradesman to cut this all out and do it properly.

 

[dik]

Just leave it.... it will make good reading in the 'Engineering Failures and Disasters' Forum

Dik

 

[XR250]

Get a larger steel cover plate fabricated with the proper diameter and weld it in. Estimate the shear in the beam/column and see if it is significant.

 

[SteelPE]

Ok, i do not condone what was done in any way and I understand that metal building members are designed to 100% of their capacity but I have to wonder about a few things. Usually a web is designed for shear, and this hole is in a tapered column. If the column is 12" at the base and 24" where the hole was cut and the web is the same thickness how bad is the situation?