When a landlord uses a 'butcher' not a welder to modify a PEMB column 2

A landlord owns several large warehouses in my area, with long-term tenants. The landlord keeps the buildings in good shape, and is proactive in upgrading and maintaining the roofs, wall envelope etc.

He recently upgraded the roof drainage system, providing new 6" Ø PVC pipes to remove roof gutter water, and routed the vertical pipes through the warehouse and then laterally through the two perimeter internal PEMB tapered steel columns.

For some reason (money I assume) he hired the local 'butcher' and not the local experienced fabricator, who proceeded to use a 5" grinder to cut a 8.5" ø hole in the web of the column, so as to install a pipe-segment reinforcement which was to be welded to the web after installation.

The hack-job resulted in gaps of 1"+ around the scribed 'cut', as follows:

A welder he is NOT!

 

[ajh1]

Flanges thinner than the web create issues with differential cooling of the flange/web weld. That can result in very wavy flanges. There are similar issues when a deeper section is used and web gets boosted for basic web/thickness ratio. This is particularly true when beam is deflection controlled so may have more depth than necessary for strength per se.

 

[TehMightyEngineer]

For reference, a CAT 980 loader:

I've seen operators of similar loaders destroy everything and anything in a building. It's next to impossible to build an enclosed structure for those to operate in without having to rely on the operator's skill to not damage the structure. If they don't care if something is destroyed (or want to destroy it in the case of what I saw; a disgruntled worker) they will destroy it, hot rolled or not.

But, I agree with KootK's original point; I'd much rather see a double-sided weld with smaller equipment such as a forklift or similar (or armor the column). I'm sure everyone has seen a column flange all bent out of shape at a facility operating forklifts, I would imagine it wouldn't take much to rip off the flange on a single sided weld.

Professional Engineer (ME, NH, MA) Structural Engineer (IL)
American Concrete Industries

https://www.facebook.com/AmericanConcrete/

 

[chicopee]

Altho. I am not a structural engineer, to me, it seems that the job could have headed in the right direction but the execution was terrible and also perhaps a stress analysis lacking. A metal sleeve, of a proper thickness, could have been professionally welded to the hole cut thru the column web in order to reinforce the hole.

 

[TLHS]

In my mind, if you're worried about forklifts, loaders or heavy equipment, your best bet is to concrete encase or put up barriers within the areas you're worried about, rather than expecting that you can detail a steel column that won't get mangled.

 

[KootK]

@TLHS: you're Vancouver based these days, right?

I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.

 

[TLHS]

I am indeed.

 

[dik]

TLHS... summer's coming... the rain is starting to warm up...

Dik

 

[Ingenuity]

7/30/2017: ===> UPDATE:

I decided to drop by the subject warehouse on Friday and see how the repair of the 'hack-job' worked out. Not sure if the same 'butcher' returned to fix his/her handy work, or if the owner found another 'welder'.

Nothing like a coat of paint to cover over welds that look like "pigeon poo".

The welder must like using off-cuts from his/her shop floor - cause they sure used a bunch on this job.

FYI - the price of a 2' x 4' x 1/4" A36 plate (that would have been enough material to reinforce two webs (18" depth x 18" long at 2 hole locations) and on both faces) from one local steel merchant is $65! I know some of the welds are out-of-position but why on earth would you add all those tabs and off-cuts?

For reference, the existing tapered webs are 5/32" thick, and the flanges are 1/4" thick. The new 'profiled' web plates (I use that loosely 'cause the profile cut is not really 'profiled' nor straight) are about 5/16" thick.

Enjoy!

Photo 1: Looking up the web:

Photo 2: Looking face-on to web - note the tabs, and off-cuts:

Photo 3: More tabs and off-cuts:

 

[Ingenuity]

Oh, I near forgot - the new rainwater drainage pipes leak - there is significant water accumulating at the column bases:

It is a warehouse for school book storage, so water leaks are a big deal - besides the detrimental effect on the steel base plates and anchor rods.

 

[dik]

I weld better than that, and, I'm not a welder...

Dik

 

[gtaw]

I venture to say the "welder" hired for the repairs was hire based on his low quote, not his credentials. I would not categorize anyone that would perform a repair or deposits welds that look like those in the photographs as a welder.

I also understand the initial modifications were made without the involvement of an engineer. It would appear "price" was more important than "quality". There are lessons to be learned from this post.

The Owner and the engineer involved should verify the individual hired is qualified to perform the work in accordance to a drawing produced by an engineer. Let's face it, an competent engineer is needed to design and to provide a drawing or sketch of what must be done to maintain the integrity of the structural member and structure. I understand the owner is the party paying the bills and has a legal responsibility to ensure the structure is safe. The engineer has a responsibility to verify his design is properly executed. To that end, I would like to think the engineer would assist the owner to verify the individual hired to execute the repair was qualified to perform the work per the drawings. All little "ground work" up front can save everyone a lot of headaches later.

How much effort is required to request a copy of the welder's qualification papers and a copy of the WPS the welder would be using to execute the welds?

Whatever money was saved by hiring two "hacks" to execute the initial repair and the subsequent repair had to have been more than the cost of bring in a competent welder to begin with. The competent welder would have asked to see and would have followed drawings provided by an engineer. Few welders that understand the liability that is involved will simply forge ahead with a cutting torch in one hand and a electrode holder in the other without drawings to show what needs to be done.

Just my thoughts after reading the post and looking at the photographs.


Best regards - Al

 

[Ingenuity]

gtaw:

You are absolutely correct in that "low quote" was the sole basis for selecting the repairs.

The PE (not original EoR) has known the owner for decades and knowing the 'cheapness' of the owner (and more importantly, the incompetence of his contractor) took it upon himself to get a cost estimate for the latest repairs using qualified and competent fabricators - the price was $3k total, for two column web hole repairs. When the PE presented the cost estimate to the owner, the owner freaked out (literally 'shouting and screaming') and said he will 'take care of it' - and the above photos depicts what "low quotes" get you.

 

[XR250]

3k is kinda ridiculous for a repair of that type. Prolly a days work max.

 

[Ingenuity]

3k is kinda ridiculous for a repair of that type.

Maybe in NC, not in HI!

Access is not great - 36" of space behind vertical storage racking filled with books. If you are bigger than 6' or 200 lb you would not be able to access the two columns.

 

[gtaw]

$3000 for the initial work would be on the high side, but not a repair of the butcher job completed by the first individual. I don't believe a $3000 price tag to repair the second butcher job would be out of the question. The repair of the repair isn't a simple task. A repair of a repair is at least twice, possibly three times as much work. Then again, you get what you pay for. This owner got exactly what he paid for.

Best regards - Al

 

[Ingenuity]

gtaw:

Do you think these 'welds' were done using SMAW or FCAW process? I assumed it was SMAW and the 'user' had issues with electrode position and welding settings.

Thoughts?

 

[gtaw]

Most welders would be offended that the individual that facilitated this work is called a welder by anyone. This person can hardly be called anything other than a "hack".

It would be interesting to know whether the person even took the time to remove the paint in the areas to be welded or if a cutting torch was used to prepare the plates and whether the dross was removed from the cut edges before attempting to weld.

The type of steel used for prefab structures usually call for low hydrogen electrodes. I doubt the proper electrodes were used. Just because the electrode says E7018 on one end doesn't mean it is low hydrogen if it wasn't stored properly.

It is probably a good bet SMAW was used, especially if the work was performed in tight quarters. However, Home Depot and Loew's sell some pretty inexpensive GMAW/FCAW machines that make "anyone a welder". Just pull the trigger and poof - weld is deposited. At least that's what some people believe.

It looks like the work was done by an employee that owns a welding machine and sticks things together on the weekends. The "boss" probably had him come in over the weekend to perform the work for a little "extra overtime."

We'll never know the end of the story until there a good storm blowing and there is a news story of a partial collapse. With some luck, the building will stay intact and no one will get hurt. It is fortune the owner has a friend that took enough interest to look the work over and attempt to address the problem. There is just so much one can do when "stupid" people are involved. "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it wear a bikini."

One last comment; was the building department ever informed of this situation? There is a roll to be played by the building official when safety is involved.

Best regards - Al

 

[dik]

Ingenuity:

among other issues... as I noted, I'm not a good welder, but a lot better than what was produced... looks like the guy went down to Canadian Tire (or the American Eq) and picked up a welder and decided to 'give it a try'.

Dik

 

[Ingenuity]

gtaw:

Thank you for your detailed reply.

was the building department ever informed of this situation?

Pretty sure there was no permit from the city building department.

... looks like the guy went down to Canadian Tire (or the American Eq) and picked up a welder and decided to 'give it a try'.

I agree. Which ironically is what I did about 1 tear ago - purchased a $999 Lincoln 210 MP welder (FCAW/GMAW/SMAW processes) - but I restricted 'my learning' to an in-house 'ships ladder' to my warehouse mezzanine:

My welds were better looking than the 'hack' work of this thread - but I did learn some quick lessons on distortion with welding.