when do you go to the state board 1

[AlpineEngineer]

So I came upon a structural planset from an engineer that was stamped for a 135mph exp B wind speed. The planset was an internet plan set which clearly said something like "lateral force resisting system designed by others". There was nothing in the planset addressing design for this wind speed. NOTHING. not a hold down, not a single requirement. This thing wouldn't meet the prescriptive reqmnts of the IRC. And it's no simple house, offset story walls, ect..

I have since uncovered more plansets with this same negligance. The building deparment says "hey, its stamped, we don't question the engineer".

Do I go to the state board?? I mean this is clearly a public safety and welfare issue. If I don't report it I feel it would be negligant on my part. Do you know if board complaints are anonymous? The last thing I want is to start a spat with this fellow.

 

[JStephen]

After re-reading the original post, I think the issue is murkier than it appears.

You can seal a drawing and exclude certain aspects of design. Several problems crop up, though. One, if this is not your drawing in the first place, you have a "personal supervision" issue. Two, if you say certain work is "by others" but know full well that it simply won't be done by anyone, that's a problem. Thirdly, if certain design aspects are excluded, but the building department is accepting the document as a certification of those aspects, that's a problem on the building department's end.

 

[Lion06]

josh-
Is that true? I thought that drift limits for seismic were different than that for wind and that a structure was not expected to stay elastic during a seismic event, and, as a result, limiting drift to serviceability considerations for a seismic event is unrealistic at best.

 

[msquared48]

Ron:

Sovereign immumity does not apply in all cases here - maaybe at the federal amd state levels, but not the local counties and cities.

Several years ago, the city and county jurisdictions in my area stopped recommending a specific engineer for a job when asked because they were getting sued when problems arose. Now they just have a list that any engineer can sign up for and pass out the list for the client to choose an engineer - the choice of the client, not the jurisdiction.

Similarly, jurisdictions refrain from engineering, leaving the liability to the engineer. Many inspectors used to interpret what the engineer meant on the drawings if there was any quyestion in order to speed up the process. Now, the contractor has to go back to the engineer to get the question answered.

These jurisdictions are not beyond liablity. They are just trying to limit it.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

 

[Ron]

Mike,
I agree, but some states make it extremely difficult to sue a local building department. In Florida it is very difficult, and usually not worth the effort since they seem to, as you noted, find numerous ways to mitigate their liability, often in a weasily fashion.

Ron

 

[FSS]

This kind of mindset from the building department is why plan stamping is so rampant. Please talk to the chief building official and explain your concerns (and the other "engineer"). There should be no wind speed info on drawing if no lateral design, and therefore the plan should be rejected as such. I have seen lateral designs done separately from gravity designs (although many things overlap).

Dave, I strongly disagree that this is not a public safety issue. After all, most people don't run to their fully engineered office building and hide when the wind starts blowing.

 

[DaveAtkins]

But our building codes are set up in such a way that one and two family dwellings are not public facilities. They don't need to be handicap accessible, they don't need elevators, etc.

A private residence, even if underdesigned, is not a danger to the general public (in my opinion).

I am in the camp of not blowing the whistle on this UNLESS you know, beyond reasonable doubt, that it is underdesigned. Just because a residence does not have hold downs at shear walls does not mean it cannot resist 130 mph wind load. There may be enough dead load on the shear walls to prevent overturning.

DaveAtkins

 

[Ron]

Dave,
While I agree to some extent with your premise, a single family residence is in the public realm if ever sold to another buyer. Buyers are not sophisticated with respect to codes and standards, nor are real estate agents and even home inspectors to a large degree. Therefore, if a house is built in an area where the reasonable expectation is that it is designed to withstand certain loadings, then it is an incumbent requirement on the engineer to do so.

Many states require that single family residence structural designs be done by a licensed engineer. For custom homes, that is treated no differently than a commercial building. For tract homes, sometimes the building department may elect to review and accept the structural design on each particular model, not each individual home.

Bottom line, if an engineer signs and seals something that does not meet the accepted standard of care and statutory requirements, he can be considered incompetent, negligent,and/or having committed misconduct under most state board laws and rules.

Ron

 

[msquared48]

Ron:

So you have weasels in Florida too?

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

 

[Ron]

Mike,
Yeah, imagine that!
Got your email...thanks.

Ron