When does a welder become a WELDER 7

[weed78]

For the fabrication of Pressure Equipment (to whatever Code) what knowledge does a welding operator need in order to be considered a Qualified Pressure Welder?

A) Can turn a machine on and knows which button to press?
B) Can adjust the machine so that a weld is produced?
C) Can melt metal?
D) Can melt metal using more than one process?
E) Can melt metal in all positions?
F) Can melt metal and understand why it is melting?
G) Can create and control a weld pool?
H) Can create a weld pool and understands what the pool is doing?
I) Can control a weld pool and understands what is happening in the vecinity of the weld?
J) Fully understands and can apply the theory of metal fusion?
K) Other?
Any comments?

 

[metengr]

I believe you are confusing what a welder or welding engineer should understand. After reviewing your items, I would say that a code welder should know items - a,b,c,d,e and probably f. The rest of the items in your list are not required, and probably would be difficult to understand for some engineers.

Most important, the welder needs to demonstrate suitable skills that they can generate a weld coupon following a welding procedure, and subject the coupon to mechanical or nondestructive testing to assure a quality weld deposit.

 

[21121956]

Hello everybody:

If you are talking about a welder, this person for the simple fact that being called "welder", should know the basic theory of this labor; that include but is not limited to: basic metallurgy, preparation of the surfaces to be welded, non destructive/destructive tests, interpretation of mechanical drawings and welding symbols, polarity of the electrode (and what are its effects), etc.

With this background, he/her perfectly can understand the points from A through I, stated in your list.

If the welder´s theoretical knowledge is combined with some manual skills, he/her can achieve the homologation tests according to the AWS standards (or equivalent) and then, he can go to work in the level he has earned.

 

[pwtomlin]

He needs to be able to make welds on test equipment that pass the tests required by what you're trying to qualify to. Presumeably that involves melting metal and controlling weld pools.

 

[weeeds]

I believe that just because a welder has passed a test does not necessarily make them a Code welder. I have seen guys trying the test a number of times until they pass. Are they good or did they just get lucky after 3 tries? Good question. I would say that the WELDER has to be able to achieve up to at least 'I'.

 

[dbooker630]

Troubleshooting - If I change the gas flows and welding machine settings the WELDER should be able to recognize this and set the process back without looking at instruction sheets.

In addition to passing a plate test at my plant I routinely will mess up their setup to make sure they are paying attention to their process. The comments on passing a test are valid, that is the easy part.

 

[weeeds]

What about the ability to correctly interpret a WPS? Should this be mandatory if you are a WELDER?

 

[metengr]

Yes, of course. This is considered an instruction, and the welder must follow the requirements. Instead of worrying about interpreting a WPS, most welders in the field are not even given a copy of a WPS! Keep with the basics.

 

[unclesyd]

Here is a slightly different approach to monitoring onsite welder training and performance.

http://www.weld-expert.com/index.htm

 

[gtaw]

It is interesting that most welding codes do not address what a welder "needs to know", only that the welder must be capable of depositing sound weld. Thus, most welding codes only require the welder to demonstrate the ability to weld a test coupon that can pass either an X-ray or bend test.

The Navy takes a different approach and requires the welder to be familiar with the fabrication requirements, pass a written examination, pass an visual acuity test, and weld a test coupon.

I do training for several client companies so they comply with the requirements of NAVSEA TP248 (welder and brazer performance and procedure qualification) as well and NAVSEA TP278 and NAVSEA TP1688 (fabrication documents). It is amazing to see the level of improvement in workmanship and acceptable work once the welders are provided instruction on the actual requirements of the work involved.

It is not uncommon to hear a client say, "They are experienced welders, they should know the requirements." What they seem to miss is the fact that many welders have never attended any formal welder training. They do not understand the fundamentals. Many welders learn to weld on the job. They only know what the other welders have taught them. There are so many wive's tails in the industry that are positively incorrect, it is amazing that welding quality is as good as it is.

Here's a few questions you can ask your welders to assess their level of competency regarding welding fundamentals.
1) What is the actual diameter of a number 6 gas cup used for GTAW? Answer: The gas cup number is the number of sixteenth, thus the number 6 cup is 3/8 inch in diameter.
2) Where does the water or moisture come from when preheating a thick plate before welding? Answer: The moisture is a by product of combustion. The moisture condenses on the cold surface as water. You'll be surprised by the number of welders that will tell you its moisture coming out of the plate.
3) What does the letter "W" stand for in the electrode designation "EWTh-2"? The "W" stands for tungsten (Wolfram). EWTh-2 is an electrode containing 2% thoria used for gas tungsten arc welding (TIG).
4) Is austenitic stainless steel, such as 304 or 312, a ferrous metal of nonferrous metal? Answer: Ferrous metal. However, many welders will reply that it is nonferrous because it is not strongly attracted to a magnet.
5) What is the purpose of preheat before welding thick carbon steel? Answer: Preheating slows the cooling rate and prevents the weld and HAZ from becoming hard and brittle. Many welders will say that it prevents the molecules from being "shocked" by the high temperature of the welding arc.

The list of questions can go on and on, but I think you get the point I'm driving at. Welders, like engineers, need to be trained if they are to produce top quality work.

While I'm on the "bully pulpit", the same problems come up in the relm of engineering. Many engineers that have the responsibility of designing, specifying, or overseeing welding operations do not have adequate training in the fundamentals of welding technology. ASME offers a course called "Practical Welding Technology" PD359. It is a good course for the beginner as well as midlevel managers and inspection personnel that need some background in welding.

Best regards - Al

 

[HgTX]

Thanks!

http://catalog.asme.org/Education/ShortCourse/Practical_Welding_Technology.cfm

How different is this from, say, ASM's "Metallurgy of Welding" course (which really talks much more about welding technology than about metallurgy)? Or Lincoln's "Design of Welded Structures" class, which has a welding technology component?

http://www.asminternational.org/Tem...te=ConferenceDescription.cfm&ConferenceID=585

http://content.lincolnelectric.com/pdfs/knowledge/training/seminars/SEMBWD.pdf

Hg

Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376

 

[rmw]

I had a welder once who was one of the best welders that I had ever seen, but he just didn't test well. Put him on a job and he would work all day making the best welds you ever saw. Send him to weld a test coupon and he would fail every time. He just got all tensed up and failed the test. After taking it several times over and over, he became accustomed to it all and then could pass.

But you want to turn him into a bundle of nerves, just tell him that he was going to have to go weld up a test coupon the next day.

Welding and testing are two different things.

rmw

 

[Tmoose]

Sometimes pretty welds don't pass tests.

 

[unclesyd]

An ugly one damn sure won't.

 

[gtaw]

The ASME course, Practical Welding Technology, is a three day course. The ASM course is five days. There is just so much information that can be packed into three days.

The ASME course concentrates on three subject areas, welding symbols, welding metallurgy, and welding processes. Those are the three areas where many welding issues initiate. The weld has to be specified correctly. The proper mechanical properties must be derived with due considertion given the what happens when a weld is made. The welding process must be selected based on the equipment availability, the capabilities, and limitations of each welding process. Other subjects are covered to a limited degree, welder and procedure qualification, weld discontinuities, design considerations, and NDT. Usually the problems have advanced to the point of repair, rework, and rejection by the time the latter subjects rear their ugly heads. That's when I get personnaly involved and the real fun begins.

Again the point of my first post was that it is better to educate the engineer, designer, welder, and inspector to eliminate the potential welding problems than to try to correct the problems after the fact. Most welding problems occur because someone in the chain wasn't familiar with the fundamentals.

The best design can't be carried out if the welds are specified incorrectly. The best welder can't make acceptable welds if the wrong filler metal is specified.

Best regards - Al

 

[tab1999]

I'd have to say that a welder becomes a welder when he or she can routinely & consistently, create the coalescence of 2 metals with minimal discontinuities. And, has the ability to repair any discontinuities that have become defects in any position that the production dictates.
( Using the process that they are qualified in )

"The ability to produce a SOUND weld with acceptable appearance."

 

[dbooker630]

I've been at my current company about four years now, and I recently discovered that several of the welders that had 'qualified' prior to my arrival basically learned to weld on the job with very little classroom instruction, similar to what gtaw recalls. The welders could weld very well, but ask them to interpret a welding symbol on a drawing and they were lost.

As a result of this I started a refresher training with a general exam that was not binding for the previously 'qualified' welders. It was only 12 hours in duration but it was 12 hours more classroom than they ever had.

The welders at my plant are hungry for knowledge, so much so that two of the welders now want to go off-site after working hours to obtain more knowledge, as the customized training manual they recieved is actually designed for a 12-week course to truly cover all aspects of production structural welding.

 

[gtaw]

There are many industries where the employer or manufacturer determines what "qualified" means.

ASME, AWS, and military welding standards define what qualified means. ASME and AWS usually requires a demonstration of the welders ability to follow a written procedure (WPS) and deposit a sound weld.

NAVSEA TP248 includes requirements for visual acuity, the demonstration of skill, i.e., depositing sound welds, classroom training, and a written test covering workmanship and fabrication standards.

The federal laws that address safety in the commercial trucking industry has no qualification/certification requirements for the welders that work on truck frames or truck bodies. A comforting thought the next time one of the road warriors passes you doing 85 mph on the interstate.

Best regards - Al

 

[fakhmed]

Return back to the mane question.

For pressure equipment welding, each welder should be qualified by test according to a referenced Code/Standard. But pay attention that this qualification is not a general qualification. It shall cover the welding variables of the production welding.

Adding to that, and this is the most important, the qualified welder after been introduced in production shall be followed by examination on production welding and if found not yet having the ability to produce a goud welding shall be retuned back to training and requalification.

A Welder don't work alone. A monitoring system should be implemented to assure a good weld. And this monitoring shall be performed by other person (May be welding coordinator or at least the welder foreman)

 

[gtaw]

I usually use two classifications for welders. The "rod burner" is the welder that welds the same thing day in and day out. He or she isn't responsible for selecting the filler metal, setting the welding machine, or joint design, just making the weld as instructed.

The "welder" is the individual that has a thirst for more knowledge, experience with several base metals, understands the basics of welding metallurgy, can select the proper electrode/filler metal for the combinations of base metals being joined, and can select and set up the welding equipment best suited for the job at hand, and can layout, fabricate, and make acceptable welds on a consistent basis. These fellas, "welders", are hard to find and well worth the money they are paid (or underpaid?).

Best regards - Al