When is a good time to look for a new job? 15

[Space213]

Hi! , Ive been at my company for 1.5 yrs now. Its my first job out of college. I have not gotten a raise yet and seems as though i will need to push to get on or else they will just take advantage of my silence and not give me one.

My question is i always heard you should stay at least 2 years at your first job before you move on. I work at a startup so my pay is easily 10-15k below market level. i live in LA.

Not sure what would you guys do? What would i tell the other company why im leaving so soon? Is it bad to express high salary desire in interviews? Before i was told you should express passion etc..but its all bullshit to me because i need to eat well and engineers get over worked anyways

Would appreciate any advice

 

[IRstuff]

Have you asked about when you might get a raise?
Is the company even doing well enough for that?
Are you still learning new things at your job?
Are you contributing to your company?
Is there any anticipation of stock options, etc?
Why did you go with the startup instead of somewhere else?

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list

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[Andries]

Don't they do performance reviews? If not, maybe you should ask why. You also need to know know from your management how you are doing.

Andries

 

[SuperSalad]

Start-ups are different and what you "should" do otherwise doesn't necessarily apply. I don't think a potential new employer would find it alarming if you left a start-up after a short stint if it were for good reasons.

That being said, and kind of similar to what was said by others before me here, what is the outlook of the company? Is it actually starting up? Can they afford to give raises and continue to operate at this point? If you stick with it and it ends up succeeding, there is a lot of potential upside, but waiting out the lean times is a necessity in that case.



Andrew H.

http://www.mototribology.com

 

[skeletron]

"When is a good time to look for a new job?"

1. When you feel undervalued at your current job.
2. When you notice that you aren't fully committed to your current position.
3. When you stop learning or being challenged.

The first job is a little tough. They get you for a bargain price, you need to accelerate on a learning curve, and it can be difficult to make big contributions and feel valued. Grind it out for a bit until just before #3 applies.

 

[TheTick]

Based on your past posts, your story arc has gone from "should I take this job?" to "I'm being bullied" to "should I leave?"?

Stop asking for permission. Own your mistakes. Own your path.

 

[Jboggs]

I would like to see more questions from you about "how can I produce more of value?" Or "How can I learn more from experienced engineers?" And less about "how can I advance immediately?"

You will understand this better later, but you are in the "maximum education" phase of your career right now. Your degree was just your admission ticket. Start looking for opportunities for learning instead of opportunities for advancement. My father once told me to make myself as invaluable as I could as quick as I could. Great advice. Are you invaluable yet?

 

[msquared48]

When is it not?

Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA, HI)

 

[Space213]

IRStuff,

I was given stock option in June, but i work in product development and its come to a point where things are getting so confusing. The higher ups dont know what they want and never stick to a certain design then get frustrated i cant meet a deadline to a moving target. Ive dealt with bullying but I find myself having to show a bad attitude because if i dont i will continue to get dealt like trash. its a weird environment. Im the product engineer/manager to the 2 highest selling products for the company that nobody expected not even myself but I am honestly tired of taking shit for unrealistic expectations.

Like the other poster said I need to just own my path and make a change

 

[truckandbus]

Seems to me like none of the old 'established' rules about staying for X years, time gaps between positions, etc don't matter any more.

do what you think will make you happy

I would caution against quitting before you have a new position

 

[SandCounter]

Always look for a new job.

 

[wayne440]

...I am honestly tired of taking shit for unrealistic expectations...

Have you made the above clear to the "higher ups"? My experience has been that the more sh*t you take, the more they will supply.
That said, bear in mind that a certain amount of sh*t taking is inherent in most jobs, and that you are not the only one who can "make a change".
Management usually likes the flow of sh*t to be downhill, so have a job to go to before significantly risking the one you have.

 

[weldstan]

From my experience, leaving a job was simply up to me, whether I didn't like the immediate supervisors, wanting different work experiences, unhappy with the lack of challenging work, chance to work in a foreign country, etc. I never asked anyone whether the time was right or not. Space 123 simply needs to make a decision and have a clear vision of what he wants to do in the future.

 

[Alex smith]

Always look for better opportunity and avail if you can!

 

[Space213]

Wayne440,

You are spot on this being my first job ive been getting treated so poorly even though I have the highest and most successful design. Its gotten much better but still i dont know. Ive learned alot and one thing is if someone gives you a shitty attitude you have to just tell them F off.

 

[STpipe]

This sounds like my first job out of University. It was essentially a startup (even though it had been in business for over 15 years). I got a single raise after my first year, and nothing else until I received my P.Eng three years later but even then I was still severely underpaid by $15-$20k. It was also a very negative environment.

But like others suggested, I did try to learn as much as possible - fundamentally that attitude is what propelled me to where I am today.

 

[Space213]

STpipe,

How did the environment and experience of that negative environment help you where you are today?

Today my boss kept telling me to shut up and stop talking over something dumb and then tries to explain something very vague to me and then i ended up going off on him by yelling. I just walked out afterwards got lunch and came back.

He later tries to lecture me and then metaphorically tells me you should let ur boss step his foot over your head at times you're not going to lose anything.

Ofcourse I didnt argue back hes the one who hired me and can fire me too.

Itll be 2 years this August ive been with the company and no raise and they are only getting cheaper and underpaying us.

Im worried that if i apply and change jobs i dont want to walk into another crappy situation.

I work extremely hard but hes just making ms handle so much now its just humanly impossible and then gets mad because im not perfect lol

So its why i dont take crap anymore and tell people to F off. Its quite a negative atmosphere that leaves you disgusted on certain days

 

[ProEpro]

Go ahead and start looking but take your time. The best time to look is always when you have a job. You should have enough perspective now to have better idea what a professional company acts like. Make sure you take enough time off between jobs to reset your bad attitude.

 

[Space213]

Do you feel like i have a bad attitude or was the unprofessional behavior is the reason? Because i tolerated alot with a smile for more than a year

 

[SandCounter]

Space213, it is difficult to gauge the severity of your situation over an internet forum. Simple economics dictate that a company will want to pay as little as it can for an employee's services and an employee will want to make as much as possible for his/her own services OR offer as little in the way of service as possible for the same compensation. Employment in the US is voluntary so the fact that you are still employed by your employer implies that for both you and your employer, no matter how uncomfortable, have found that mutual benefit where the employer feels they are getting an acceptable product for their money and you are receiving acceptable compensation for the product you are providing. Of course if you leave or are asked to leave, this is an indication that there is an imbalance.

I could see it would also be difficult for you to gauge the situation yourself being this is your first job out of school and you have only been there 1.5 year. In my view, expecting a raise within 1.5 years seems like expecting too much. I would certainly not expect a raise so soon if I negotiated compensation at hire (I don't know if you did). But, I would expect a raise if there was an agreement for added compensation if you have met certain measurable expectations.

As for the work environment, it is both difficult for forum members to evaluate and even yourself. We don't know what your day-to-day really looks like and with this being your first job out of school and only 1.5 years experience out of school, you may not know what other work places are like. In my experience, everyone thinks they are working too hard and are worthy of greater compensation. Everyone has to deal with difficult bosses or co-workers. If you move to another company, you will have difficult bosses or co-workers there as well. The truth is, if it was easy, comfortable, and paid well, everyone would do it. But it's not easy, that's why we're engineers. It's not comfortable, that's why it's called "work," and it never pays as well as you would like.

Here is my opinion on tenure, keep in mind, this is my opinion:
[ul]
[li]Out of school, up to 1 year tent-making job, i.e. that job you took out of school just to support yourself while you found your career job. It may not even be in your field.[/li]
[li]5+ years on first career job will get you solidly from noobie to junior engineer.[/li]
[li]After that, 5-year increments in a new situation, either new position at same company, or new job.[/li]
[/ul]
Why 5 years? I think it helps put a bad days or a bad year in perspective. If you get to the end of 5 years and you know you still can't stand it, move on, you've probably lived through a business cycle and done your part for company loyalty.