When should I tell my employer I am looking for other employment 17

[StrucDesignPE]

I recently applied for a job with another company. It was a random job listing that I happened to see and was instantly attracted to. I met all of the qualifications easily. After several weeks of waiting, I was contacted for a phone interview. I feel like the interview went well and I was told I was likely to hear something within the next week or two. No other interviews will be required.

I am relatively happy where I currently work, but the main motivations for leaving are better pay and benefits and a better path for career advancement. My career at my current company is as far as it can go, even after I obtain my PE.

I have a good personal relationship with my boss and other employees, so I feel some guilt for possibly leaving, but know that this different employment will be much better for my future and family.

The firm where I currently work is small and were I to leave, the capacity of the firm for new work would be reduced by a decent percentage; but I am reluctant to tell my boss that I may get another job as I don't want it to affect my working relationship, especially if I don't actually get it. The potential employer is not a competitor to where I work now, but someone who has contracted with us for past work. If I am offered a position, I would insist on giving my current employer at least two weeks notice.

Should I talk with my boss about this and let it be known that I have interviewed and may leave? Or should I just wait until I am actually offered the position and know that I will be leaving?

 

[RVAmeche]

In the US, at least on the East coast, I think the "normal 2 week notice" is just a generic gesture expected. You certainly don't HAVE to do it, but it can leave a bad taste in your previous employers mouth if you ever wanted to come back or need a reference.

I agree its something of a double standard where employers can lay you off or fire you without notice, but I also get it from their perspective (don't want a terminated employee having extended access to networks, etc).

 

[LittleInch]

I think in the UK and Europe the join notice period only become invalid if the company goes into liquidation. Then you can't work for that company so can start immediately at any other if you've got the chance.

Who pays statutory reduncany then is either the liquidator if there's any money left or the government (in the UK at least). One week per year ( or 1 1/2 weeks for > age 40) but a max weekly pay of £544 and a max payout of £16K

Plus minimum notice periods of 1 week or 12 weeks if there >12yrs

Two weeks notice in one direction and no weeks in the other?? Hmmmm

But yes, most people don't want to burn bridges without good reason so two weeks which gives you some sense of handover and a professional "closure" is normal in Engineering. Four weeks can be a real bind so often you end up taking your outstanding holidays or just coming to an agreement that three weeks is enough. You then spend most of your time gossiping with fellow employees all trying to see if they are underpaid / undervalued and wanting you to "remember them" if opportunities come your way.

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Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[MacGyverS2000]

Most states in the US are "employment at will" (in fact, Montana is the only non at-will employment state), which means a company can terminate your employment at any time (zero notice) without provided reason, unless specified otherwise in a contract (and they rarely go that route, because the agreement has to be fair to both employee and employer). However, if the "reason" can be proven to be illegal (i.e., discrimination), the lawsuits kick in.

Two weeks is generally considered fair notice for most jobs, though longer terms are appreciated for professional positions (i.e., all of us). Two weeks has generally worked well for me, and I try to make sure everything is wrapped up before that period is over... sometimes leaving projects in the middle can't be avoided, but unless you hate your employer, cleaning up as much as possible beforehand keeps those bridges form being completely torched.

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[Compositepro]

The two week notice is a traditional practice. If a company terminates an employee, they generally want the person gone immediately, for a number of valid reasons, but will usually pay for at least two weeks.

A disgruntled employee may cause sabotage or steal company secrets, a "dead man walking" is bad for the morale of other employees, and someone who knows they they are leaving has little motivation to be productive

 

[phamENG]

As MacGyver mentioned, most employment in the US is "at will." In that case, employment can be terminated by either party at any time for any reason (within the limits of the law - discrimination, etc - also as MacGyver mentioned). An employee can walk out and start working for somebody else the day they quit. They can also start working for them before they leave if they really want to, but risk getting fired if their other employer finds out. Most company policies require the 2 weeks notice of their employees and implement penalties if you don't do it, like not paying back vacation/sick time. I've honestly never checked to see if that was legal, and haven't been in a position to need to challenge it.

Some employment is contractual, and can have different rules and set other guidelines.

Traditional practice for giving notice is 2 weeks, but in professional settings I've learned a good rule of thumb is the number of weeks of vacation you're given. In the US, you typically start at 2 weeks and gain a week every 5 years up to 4 or 5 weeks, depending on your employer (5 seems to be pretty rare these days). So it's an indirect measurement of your value to the company and likely the importance of your position. The longer you've been there, the more time you'll need to turn over.

 

[CWB1]

IME stateside I would expect the OP to be walked out as soon as a supervisor hears of an interview elsewhere to prevent IP theft or other issues. When putting in notice of accepting a job elsewhere, I would give it 50/50 odds that they are walked out immediately for the same reason. During a layoff such as during an industry downturn, management usually gives general notice that there will be layoffs upcoming without mentioning specific names, so smart employees are prepared to be walked out on the magic day. Having been part of large, multi-thousand employee layoffs I prefer the no-nonsense approach - notify me, get the HR paperwork handled, let me clean out my desk, and I'll leave with a smile, handshake, and no hard feelings. Sadly, employers are becoming reticent to even let folks clean out their own desks anymore due to the overly emotional nonsense and games many play. The irony of the drama is that for many folks and engineers in particular, layoffs can be amazingly rewarding both financially and intellectually.

 

[phamENG]

My experience is quite different from CWB1 - a difference of employer size likely plays a big role. Like you, I worked at a small structural firm. One office serving the local region and, for a few clients, the entire Mid-Atlantic and Northeast and a few government jobs a little further afield. Staff is very close knit. When I got an offer elsewhere (from a client, not from a competitor) I gave them roughly 1 month notice and stayed on part time after that to make sure all my projects were wrapped up.

CWB1's advice is solid, though, and in some cases I could see a small employer being even worse since they could take it as a personal insult that you're leaving. If they do, too bad for them, but keep in mind that it can have an impact on you.

Long story short, you never really know how they'll react. Don't say anything until you have an offer in hand, and when you do be prepared for just about anything.

 

[GregLocock]

"someone who knows they they are leaving has little motivation to be productive"

In my direct experience, other than pride, professionalism, unwillingness to destroy a good working relationship (3 out of 4 employers would have me back, one did), you'd be right.

Cheers

Greg Locock


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[IRstuff]

Being walked out during a layoff makes sense, since it's involuntary, and there's likely to be some bad feelings; quitting, on the other hand, is a voluntary gesture, and if IP were to be taken, it would already have been done so, since there's no need to wait until the notice period to do so. I sort of see being walked out upon giving notice as being an act of vindictiveness.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
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[Andries]

Also, try not to burn bridges, even if you feel bad about the company. You will be in the clear.

Andries

 

[dik]

I didn't know what IP was... and found this site.

https://www.smartbiggar.ca/insights...-the-ip-generated-by-your-canadian-employees-

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[IRstuff]

ET's automatic link generator missed the hyphen on the end of the link

Link

As a general rule, if you are an employee, then you were recompensed, by your salary, for any IP generated in the course of working for them, so they own the IP. All patents that I've gotten are owned by the companies I worked for.

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[moltenmetal]

Remember that a job offer- even a written one- is NOT a contract. No consideration has changed hands.

So you shouldn't tell your employer that you're quitting until you actually have a job offer in hand- and preferably, have received some consideration from them- $1 is fine- to make it a legally binding contract. That way they can't do what was done to me on my 1st job out of school: they made me an offer, I rejected it, they sweetened it by 4% and I accepted. 3 days later I got an offer from another firm for 13% more, but I'm a man of my word...Went away to Europe, came back, paid 1st and last on an apartment and moved in- went to see my new boss a week before my start date. He said "hi, your pay has been cut by 5%". I was now making 1% less than an offer I'd rejected, and 18% less than the offer I'd turned down from the other firm.

My recourse would have been to just not show up, and try to beg my way into the other firm. I didn't- I stayed- and they were into my pocket several times to take back money they'd agreed to give me over the next 2 yrs. Finally after cutting me down to 4 days per week, I had a day off every week to look in earnest for another job, and I found one and handed in my notice.

Lesson learned...a contract needs an offer and acceptance, it needs to be legal, you need to both have the capacity to enter into the contract, and some "good and valuable consideration" has to be offered. That can be defined as something other than money, but if you leave a job and then they cancel your offer, here in Ontario they would owe you nothing for that- unless you make it clear that leaving your prior job is "good and valuable consideration" sealing the deal.

Not suggesting you be your own employment lawyer, nor am I trying to be one for you, but hiring one is a good idea when they're needed.

 

[MacGyverS2000]

Not sure what that $1 does for you, MM, but it certainly doesn't make the offer a legally binding contract from a payscale or period-of-employment point of view (though they may be locked into certain items they list in their employment contract... see above). Ss I mentioned above, companies can part ways with you at any time, and your salary isn't guaranteed, either. Nothing legally stopping a company from coming in on day two and saying "We're cutting your pay 5%".

I would have immediately contacted that other firm and asked if the offer was still available... and if it was, I would not have provided any notice to the first company, I would just stop showing up. It's not like they could claim the higher moral ground after screwing you over...


Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[JohnRBaker]

Having a dollar change hands in many cases makes a transaction legal in the eyes of the law. Most patent agreements have some sort of wording in them about transferring the ownership of a patent for "one dollar, paid in hand". I was lucky, back when I was working as a machine designer my company paid us $100 (after taxes) for each patent application submitted and another $100 (after taxes) if and when a patent was issued, and that was to each of the co-inventors listed on the patent. Note that this was back in the 70's when a $100 could actually buy you something. For the record, I'm a co-inventor on two US Patents.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-'Product Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[Rabbit12]

I've left two employers in the engineering field and my experiences are one like the one described by CWB1 and one by phamENG.

The first employer I gave three weeks notice and worked the entire three weeks. I wanted to leave them in a good spot and they had no problem with that. They'd hire me back in a heartbeat if I ever wanted to go back. In fact, I'm friends with some of the higher ups there to this day and they also tease me about coming back.

The second one I gave my two weeks right before I left one night. My boss called and said they were considering walking me out. I was on my way home so they couldn't do it that night. By the time I got home my email and access to the company system had been shut off. I went back the next day and cleaned my desk out and turned in my badge. I was a little pissed because I was planning on staying on to help them and close out my stuff. They had done some shady things to me and I still was willing to take the high road....they weren't.

I wouldn't tell your boss you are leaving until you've accepted in offer. I'd also consider (maybe highly recommend) that you give more than 2 weeks if you are leaving on good terms.

 

[SwinnyGG]

I've left 4 employers in my career. All 4 times I was more than happy to continue working for my notice period. In three cases I felt no ill will at all, it was just time to move on for various reasons (lack of challenging problems to solve, restricted upward or lateral mobility, etc). In 1 case I was quite angry, but was the leader of a team of great people who were shat upon by director-levels without a clue. In that case I would've stuck around for an extra two weeks just to ease the burden on my team.

Anyway. In all 4 cases, immediately upon giving notice, I was told to wait in the office of the manager to whom I was speaking. HR came in and we did whatever paperwork needed doing right there. I was then walked to my desk, allowed to grab my stuff, and in 3 of 4 cases was given the opportunity to make a short trip around the office to shake hands and say thank you to various people. In case number 4 they were very pleased to see me go, so the whole process was much less amicable. But I've always been immediately walked out. Granted, all 4 of these companies were in various corners of the technology sector, involving work with confidential clients and a lot of proprietary technology. So I never took it personally.

 

[dik]

I understand that the little red sticker, attached to the contract, is considered as 'consideration'...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[OHIOMatt]

I think only the OP can answer this question. About a year into my first job out of school, I came to the realization that the type of work that I was doing was not how I wanted to spend my career. I had a good relationship with my manager. I told him the truth, even before starting my search. He was very gracious, and had me help him fill my position. It ended up an amicable split. In fact, we would even go to lunch together annually to catch up.

My next position did not end in the same manner. I had moved into a management position, the economy sucked, I was letting engineers go every month. I knew they needed to cut salary, so I did not feel comfortable with the same approach. I found my new position and offered a months notice before leaving. They accepted the month. They did appreciate the month. Now, they are a client of mine.

No matter what you do, handle yourself as a professional. This is a small world, you will be interacting with these people again, and soon.

 

[StrucDesignPE]

I have read everyone's perspective and experiences with interest and appreciation. The two weeks that I plan to offer is a minimum. Right now things have slowed down some and my projects are wrapping up. I have not yet received an offer from the potential employer, so a lot of this will depend on what they need. This may be all for nothing if I don't get a job offer. I have considered "hanging on" to do some work on as-needed basis until my position is filled. I fill a niche in my company with some extra experience I have. This will not be a conflict with the potential employer as the two don't compete and my new career is a slightly different direction than structural design. I have seen others do the same. I will keep the thread posted on if I receive a job offer and how the rest goes.

I would like to hear other's experiences with doing part-time type work for their former full-time employers.