Where did all of the MEP engineers go? 17

[jmbelectrical]

I work for a somewhat large MEP (Mechanical, electrical, plumbing/piping) consulting firm in the United States and we're having what I perceive to be as an incredibly difficult time filling the numerous open positions that we have available. I may be completely wrong about this, but I don't recall this problem really existing before 2007-2008. I suspect that many who were laid off after the economy took a nosedive either relocated or found new careers entirely. There's talk about the possibility of conducting a search nationwide and, if the right candidate is found, paying him or her to relocate to one of our offices. While I understand that this is not uncommon, I don't think this much effort was ever necessary in the past.

To anyone else working in the MEP consulting industry, have you noticed significantly increased difficulty in finding talented mechanical and electrical engineers with experience in building systems?

 

[berkshire]

jmbelectrical (Electrical)

One more sinister aspect of the low wage scales you posted in your reply to Iceworm on Jan 27th, is that certain corporations do this on purpose. Then when they get no takers, they apply for a " Certificate of Labor " in the area where they live, enabling them to recruit overseas.
B.E.

You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.

 

[GMcD]

In my neck of the woods, the basic problem is the education and accreditation system. When I graduated in 1979, Building Services was a third year engineering elective, which meant that it was a timetable filler if you didn't have a full course load. Today, it's still a fourth year elective at the local University. Fundamentally there are very few University educated engineers that have ANY background or understanding of MEP systems for buildings. The Tech Colleges are doing quite well in turning out well rounded fan-pickers and plumbing pipe sizers, but those folks realize after a short time that the Mechanical Contractors are making all the money, and there isn't a lot of coin to be made in Consulting Engineering. About a third of our office are ex-pats from Ireland and the UK where they have much higher mandatory education courses for building services and they slot right in, but have to adjust to the local and North American standards and systems.

Again, this is a regional thing - this area (Western Canada) has gone through at least three big "economic corrections" in my career that have forced the consulting engineering culture into being a commodity, fee driven exercise. In our firm, we have seen a "churn rate" of close to 25% in the last year - with more than half of those 5-10 year experienced people leaving the industry altogether to do everything from industrial facility engineering, to auto parts, to light rail transit systems, and about 1/3 of those people who left were more or less off to a higher pay at a different place in the same field. I've spent a lot of time mentoring university grads who have gotten into this MEP Consulting business, but have become disillusioned with the amount of overtime, insane deadlines, dealing with Architects and clients who have no clue, Clients who don't pay bills, etc. and realizing it's not all Green Buildings, Net Zero, or Living Building Challenge projects on the leading edge of MEP systems design, and by the time they are in a position to get their P.Eng after 4 years, they're off to something else.

Our firm has a pretty good (I think) junior staff education program, support, and internal mentoring, but the amount of work required just to meet the financial targets means everyone is working harder than ever and still not getting decent raises, bonuses, or profit share (profit share, what's that??).

 

[Gymmeh]

jmbelectrical,

There are places with stability, you just have to look hard.

The current place I am at has almost no turn around, the youngest person next to me has been here 5 years. However, it is small, there is not much fam & glory, but its stable, which is what I need right now.

 

[moltenmetal]

jmbelectrical: sounds to me like you work in an industry which wants engineers to be like unionized tradesmen- your firm wants to be able to go to the union hall the day after winning work, and take the next five guys in line. You CAN have that- experienced people still, even today- but those folks aren't employees, they're contractors. They charge a contractor's rate, as you'd expect them to, since they're covering a big chunk of your overhead. Hire them and poof, there goes your slim margin on your man-hours. Sucks to be in your business, which is why I'm not- I've been there. The only feasible solution for the labour woes of businesses like yours is for a few of them to go out of business.

 

[Compositepro]

There are temp agencies. Some companies go though temp agencies so they can evaluate an employee before doing a permanent hire.

 

[beej67]

Whole lot of unemployed millennials. Consider training one.

Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -

http://www.campbellcivil.com

 

[cry22]

I am one of those that pulled off after 25 years in HVAC
Got sick and tired of old boys network, same old folks getting paid more and me doing more. I moved on on my own sort of.
Now I do some consulting here and there, the roof over my head is paid for, some retirement money aside, don't have to take the sh..t as much.
In a word, most of the good ones are not so hungry anymore.

I really love what I do, I don't need to be trained, I train others, love to teach and pass it on to the next generation (I do not want to take my knowledge to the grave).
I am in the DC area, people with my experience get 145K, when I ask the same, they want to offer 120K, so screw you, I am not working for you.
The other thing I hate is that most companies nowadays post and add on Craigslist without even putting their company name, and they expect a Resume?
Or, they want you to apply on line. Man, do I hate that.

I will apply to a company that puts its name out there so I can investigate it, one that puts a phone number, I want to call ahead and talk to someone.

And some companies are so desperate, they only use placement agencies. I never, ever send my resume to a placement agency.

Some companies have weird concepts, their company in the middle of nowhere and they expect people to move in, just like that, packing wife, kids and dogs for the small job they offer in the small town USA. Start considering telecommuting from out of state, you'll be surprised of the quality engineers you can get. Try free lancers too.

Yes, there are lots of lousy engineers out there, you need to hire 10 find one or two descent ones, lots of resumes with the truth stretched too far. Just hire the experienced guys and compare their salary to their output, you can fire him/her within two weeks if you think they don't worth the money.

One more thing: when I come to you with 25-years of experience, I expect benefits matching that experience (5-weeks vacation, fully vested in 401K, good healthcare, fair company policy, etc), not just two weeks vacation. Some companies still don't even have you fully vested in their 401K plan the first day on the job. You need 5-year tenure to take the little 2.5% company match, they are that cheap. some companies have a 10% minimum unpaid overtime built-in in their company policy. Despicable.

Does that help?

 

[beej67]

Oh man, I forgot how funny the OP was until the bump.

I work for a somewhat large MEP (Mechanical, electrical, plumbing/piping) consulting firm in the United States and we're having what I perceive to be as an incredibly difficult time filling the numerous open positions that we have available. I may be completely wrong about this, but I don't recall this problem really existing before 2007-2008.

That's because they all got fired, remember?

Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -

http://www.campbellcivil.com

 

[Maui]

With apologies to Pete Seeger, as well as Peter, Paul, and Mary:

Where have all the MEPs gone, long time passing?
Where have all the MEPs gone, long time ago?
Where have all the MEPs gone?
Gone to better fields everyone.
When will they ever learn?
When will they ever learn...

http://www.EngineeringMetallurgy.com

 

[urgross]

It was tough to find good MEP's before 2007, it is still tough to find a good MEP willing to relocate, able to sell their house and buy a new one, and a family willing to relocate.