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Where have all the engineers gone?? 17

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izax1

izax1

Mechanical
Jul 10, 2001
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I just found the following on CNN.


And I wonder: Why has the demand for engineers declined??

And I wonder because everymans demand for engineering gadgets are still present in an ever increasing complexity. (Computers, Kitchen utilities, TV and Home video etc) but I think the most demanding and most complex engineered utilities must be the "tools" we use to get as far as possible and as fast as possible from A to B. And at the same time without failure and accidents. We still need ever more advanced cars, trains, aeroplanes and ships. Wher to they come from if not from clever engineers? And you dont get from A to B with a computer if you do not have the car with and engine.
I am a mechanical (aerospace) engineer myself from Europe and love my job, and have been privileged with working with advanced automobiles, aeroplanes and spacecrafts. This survey from CNN is not unique, and not specific for the US. What will transport the dentists, the doctors, the accountants, the teachers, the politicians from A to B if there are no engineers to design and develop the transporters.

I just wonder?
 
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The education field seems to demand post-graduate education of some sort. In many places it is statutory.

I think one reason more engineers don't get masters degrees is because they are more employable than liberal arts BAs. Many people resort to grad school (or worse, law school) because their employment or promotion prospects with there current BA degrees are not good.
 
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Izax1, why are you assuming all engineers NEED a graduate degree? The undergraduate degree is almost all that's needed for landing your first engineering job out of college, and then it's the experience that's gained from that point on that matters most. If a masters degree in engineering helps with your current job, or you're trying to completely switch industries, then it might be a good idea. Otherwise it's really up to the individual to determine whether it's needed or not.

As per that CNN study, more than half of the graduate degrees were in either education or business. Many schools and universities require a masters degree as part of their teacher requirememts, so that explains the popularity of the program. And since a whole lot of those BA degrees out there are completely worthless, it's safe to say that many of these same people are pursuing masters degrees in business to make themselves more marketable and employable. An engineer could easily work themselves up into management, whereas a political science major in a dead end won't have that luxury unless they go back to school.

This CNN study is a bit odd though. It breaks down the percentage of graduate degrees awarded in each broad discipline, but then lists a top 15 list of the fastest growing careers for the next decade. And yet, most of those careers don't require a masters degree, let alone an undergraduate one. Would a home health aid, veterinary tech, athletic trainer or physical therapist need an MS at the end of the their name? Unfortunately, what this article doesn't talk about, is the often prohibitive cost of graduate school, which is what discourages a lot of people from pursuing in the first place.
 
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Yes, many valuable comments. But...

I'm thinking of the manufacturers. Especiallay the Automotive makers. (Ford, GM, Chrysler.) Can'they see they are loosing ground? The Japaneese and Koreans are grabbing more and more of the market. And as far as I know (And I know to s certain extent the Japanese) the demand for mechanical engineers (MSc and PhD)are increasing in Asia. And when China and India wakes up, Europe and US will be struggling even more. China is today one of the worlds largest Automotive suppliers, but they have had more than enough to supply their home market. When will the west wake up???
 
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Ten of the top 15 growth "careers" listed in that article had something directly or indirectly to do with healthcare. That's no surprise to me at all.

Don't assume that because engineers are important to industry and society and the economy, that educating MORE engineers will lead to thriving industries and a booming economy! That would only follow if the ONLY thing holding back industry and our economies was a shortage of engineers.

In Canada, 1/3 of people with engineering degrees per the 2006 census were employed as engineers or managers of engineers. Until that stat rises from 1/3 to say 2/3 or better still 9/10, nobody can tell me there's a shortage of engineering grads. Developed nations long ago built the capability to educate more engineers than their economy could possibly use. It's not the 1950s and never will be again.

As to the usefulness of grad school to an engineer- that depends on what you want to do, and where you want to do it. The 2/3 of eng grads who remain outside the profession at any given time aren't there because of a lack of an advanced degree, that's for sure.
 
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Perhaps the truth is that manufacturing is best performed in up and coming economies. In that case it might make more sense to colocate the engineers with the manufacturing plants, rather than trying to design at a distance.

If the above is true then there seems little point in stamping your feet and saying that it should not be so.



Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376
 
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Well, I really shouldn't care. I'm just wondering.... I have a good and challenging job, and enjoy every day of it. And I am escpecially interested in the transportation sector. I guess any of you employed in that sector have felt the decline in activity over the last couple of years. Escpesially in the West. (If this is wrong, please educate me)The car marked has shifted from European and US cars to more and more Japanese (I'm driving one myself) and Korean. So why is it that they have increased their marked share, and the West have not increased to the same extent? I assume this has something to do with technlogy, price and quality. Furthermore I assume all this has something to do with clever engineering.

Or I might be wrong.......
 
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I do understand the fact that engineering enrolements are in decline:

I dont know much about the other industries so I will speak about mine.

It is easier to get a business type degree that gives you an easier job with less responsibility that is more respected and that pays more money.

The percieved requirement of Civil engineers has gone down with many local authorities not having a qualified engineer on staff.

Society has been putting less and less emphasis on maintenance, particularly that of things like highway infrastructure. Therefore engineers that previously worked on these things have less work.

When things needed to be calculated by hand it was obvious that a qualified engineer was required to do the calculations, but now that we have automated analysis and design programs there is the perception that less qualified personnel can achieve the same result.

A large amount of the engineering has followed the manufacturing offshore and it is mostly the bespoke design that is left.

 
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Twoballcane [thumbsup]. I can vouch for that as well...
Do I have to say it again for the others ...
[B.Eng] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>*10^100 [BA] in every way.

[peace]
Fe
 
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Re: izax1's comment of "I'm thinking of the manufacturers. Especiallay the Automotive makers. (Ford, GM, Chrysler.) Can'they see they are loosing ground?"

I graduated in the summer of '08 with a BS in rubber engineering and spent weeks calling Ford and Goodyear and applying for all relevant jobs they were posting, even ones that were probably below my level of education, just trying to get any sort of in. I was pretty darn persistant. After the normal methods of application failed me, I found some midlevel managers and called them directly for an introduction. Got nothin'. I know that was at the height of the recession and all, but still. I'm happily employed now but I still apply at both those companies off and on and haven't gotten anything in return in the slightest.

So it's not just that there are no engineers out there. I was one step away from banging on the doors for a job. For me, at least, I see working non-auto as more job security than auto, which is depressing really.
 
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The CNN article is quite clear about the realtion between master's degrees and job opportunities (or lack of thereof):

"While the large number of master's degree earners in business and education is definitely a testament to the popularity of those professions -- it doesn't necessarily attest to the growth of these particular industries and vice versa.

Despite the fact that only 4 percent of master's degrees were awarded in math or computer science in 2009, for example, many of today's fastest growing professions are in these disciplines.

The same goes for health science and engineering -- though these graduate programs may not be as popular as those in business and education, job opportunities are expected to abound."
 
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" I am escpecially interested in the transportation sector. I guess any of you employed in that sector have felt the decline in activity over the last couple of years."

Shrugs. The two main automotive companies in Australia are hiring right now. The company I work for had a small engineeering headcount reduction in the depths of the GFC mainly, I think, so that we could be seen to sharing the pain, but the reality is that SE Asia and the Pacific region is desperately short of automotive product development expertise, and the Australian companies are well placed to provide it. Our designs are built in South Africa, India, China and Thailand and will be exported worldwide real soon now. Bear in mind that the Japanese are getting out of building cars in Japan, it really seems to me that automotive assembly is moving to low cost labor markets, like it or not.

So you can do the King Canute thing, or figure out how to make a career out of the inevitable.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376
 
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Twoballcane,

As I said, I was referring to my industry which incidentally does not appear on that list.

Love the pictures that they put with the job titles:

Computer engineer - shows a guy repairing computers
Chemical engineer - appears to ahow a chemist
Mining engineer - looks like part of a fun park!

Just goes to prove that the media has no idea what engineers do.
 
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