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Who accepts final responsability for a drawing; the Certified Drafter or the Engineer that checks it 3

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vonsteimel

vonsteimel

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Oct 19, 2010
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This is a question that has plagued me for years and I've been on both sides of the fence with it. I originally started out as an Industrial drafter (AS Degreee) and worked as a drafter/designer. Then I went back to school and got a BS in Mechanical Engineering.

My question is: When a drawing is produced by a certified drafter and then it goes to an Engineer who checks the drawing. If the drawing has mistakes and it makes its way to production and leads to an accident, who will be responsible? The drafter or the engineer?

I feel as if the mistake was on the drafting portion (as in an incorrectly applied dimension/tolerance/GDT.etc) than it is the drafters fault. After all, very little is taught on ANSI drafting standards in Mechanical Engineering School so how can we expect the engineers to catch this?

However, if it is a mistake in the engineering/design of the part but the drawing was correct than it is the engineers fault.

Does anyone have any official answers or cases they can reference? Up to now, all I've ever heard was opinion on this topic... But if the Sh*t ever hits the fan, how will it really play out in the legal system? Who is responsible?

I've had engineers who felt they were responsible for the whole drawing & everything on it once they sign it; and as a result they would sometimes spend HOURS checking it (sometimes longer than I had spent making the drawing!). I would understand this notion if it were actually true that the engineer is totally responsible after checking & signing it... But this seems illogical... I've seen some engineers (who were not trained in drafting as I am) make some pretty pathetic drawings... So how can they be expected to be responsible for the drafting portion of which they know little about?

Feel free to give your opinion. I'm hoping someone who has "been there done that" or a lawyer will post some facts and put this question to rest once and for all.
Thanks,

VS
 
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What context?

If in the world of PE's (in the US) where the engineer actually has to stamp the drawing etc. then I believe the legal buck falls to the PE.

In the exempt world then as I understand it the company is primarily legally liable.

Who the company blames is up to them.

The typical saying is the last person to sign it takes the blame or similar but that's a bit harsh!

As for "After all, very little is taught on ANSI drafting standards in Mechanical Engineering School so how can we expect the engineers to catch this" well frankly if your job duties require it then you need to learn it, or find another job. Plus, if you're so good at drafting surely you know they're ASME standards now in the US;-).

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I personally have never worked with a "certified drafter".
Every company I have worked at, whoever signs the drawing is responsible for its content.
The "drafter" usually makes the drawing based in info supplied by the designer and/or engineer.

Chris
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My question is: When a drawing is produced by a certified drafter and then it goes to an Engineer who checks the drawing. If the drawing has mistakes and it makes its way to production and leads to an accident, who will be responsible? The drafter or the engineer?
Click to expand...

I would think that first of all it is a responsibility of a company that prepared poor documentation and/or poor product based on the documentation (even if the print was perfectly according to all standards required), and not of a single man in particular - assuming that the single man is not a drafter, PE, drawing checker, manufacturing engineer, quality engineer, inspector etc. in one.

In my previous job there were at least 4 signatures required on a print: drafter's, PE's, tooling engineer's and so-called standard checker's. All of the signatures were equally important, because involvement and expertise of all the persons were absolutely required in the process of releasing a part for production. So each of them were partially responsible for the print, but in case of any product issues in front of customer everything was company's fault. (Of course internally the company could blame all of people signed on the print or none of them. All depended on the situation).
 
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I’ve never been in trouble so big, it required a certified scapegoat.
But the way I see it, both engineer and drafter are merely hired help. They are “following orders” (read with German accent).
Another reason company shouldn’t point the finger at the employees is that, should the case go to court, you really don’t want your drafter who has nothing to lose to testify under oath about inner workings of your joint.
Cynical? Well, I am old and tired.
 
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I've had bosses who specifically did not want engineers to get their PE so they could not testify as an "expert witness". For what ever reason, in the US, a degree in Engineering does not make you an engineer in the eyes of the court, only a PE license does. So I doubt any draftsperson, no matter how qualified, could be dragged into court over a drawing error. The officers of the company would be the ones charged with negligence (or whatever) even though they probably could not even read the print.

----------------------------------------

The Help for this program was created in Windows Help format, which depends on a feature that isn't included in this version of Windows.
 
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For industrial-exempt enterprises, it is the company/owners who have their collective nads in the liability wringer. Employees do not. It is incumbent on the company to delegate authority to those it has deemed competent and trustworthy.
 
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vonsteimel,

Like ctopher, I have never heard of a certified drafter. A lot of drafters these days are CAD operators, with minimal expertise in drafting.

In any case, GD&T is a language. If you do not understand the language, you don't understand the drawings, and you have no business signing them off.

I asked this in the Ethics Forum, thread765-194599.

--
JHG
 
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A second pair if educated eyes is invaluable in accuracy of the final engineering product. Many companies now have deleted the seperate checking function, relying on CAD accuracy and expecting the drawing generator to review their own work before filing and submitting it. IF you find a mistake before you cut chips--- no harm--no foul and no serious blame should be assigned. The one who made the mistake will usually feel guilty enough anyway. Manufacturing also has a responsibility to review the product submitted to them, and not just blindly start cutting. I too have never heard of a "certified drafter". Usually the only certified one is a licensed PE.
 
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desertfox said:
Hi

I feel the responsibilty lies with the checker.
Click to expand...

If the checker is a senior person with authority over the designer, and they are given adequate time to completely review every single document in the design package, then they can be held responsible.

I would hold the designer responsible. The checker's job would be to catch enough mistakes to justify the time and effort required to do the design checking.

--
JHG
 
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drawoh said:
The checker's job would be to catch enough mistakes to justify the time and effort required to do the design checking.
Click to expand...

So, the checkers job is to justify his own existence while not being actually responsible for anything?

Checkers…
 
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Depends a lot on what level of checking is being done etc. The more complete and full the check then the more blame might be shared by the checker.

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Engineer that checks it - whether they specifically check it or not. It is the engineer's responsibilty to trust, or not trust the Certified Drafter.



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