Who wants to be a manager 4

[brainstorming]

I have had an argument with one my colleagues regarding 2to be a manger"
We both process engineers and have good experience >4 years
but our views are different,
I myself want to be a manger in the future and he was opposing my view by saying that "do not think about the management since it will come to you when time comes" but I replied to him saying "I have to think about this so that I will be motivated to reach my goal"
By long speech, we could not reach to an agreement while our views are totally different.,
I
I think "to be a manger" everybody’s wish not me only.
Do you see same as I have seen or you have different opinion in this subject?

Regards

 

[ctopher]

I think everyone should have goals, but be realistic.
If that is what you want to be, go for it. Good luck.

From past experience, the ones that don't want the job, or are not good mangmt material, are usually the ones that get it.

Chris
Sr. Mechanical Designer, CAD
SolidWorks 05 SP1.1 / PDMWorks 05
ctopher's home site

 

[HgTX]

Of course you should plan to be a manager. Things do NOT drop right into people's laps. All kinds of decisions like who to suck up to (I mean who to network with) and what continuing ed classes to take depend on whether you want to be on the management track or not.

Hg

 

[jsummerfield]

Some people have great technical skills and lack leadership abilities. Not everyone wants to be a manager. Some who want to be a manager also lack leadership skills.

Managers may loose touch with the technical aspects of the work at-hand. The higher you rise, the less that you even deal with the technical people. Soon they are all just numbers on a spreadsheet as you become consumed by the cost per hour or per equipment piece. You must continuously improve while expending as little on prodictivity toys or training. Your conflicts require you to discipline your reports for failing to make goals, set by others in the organiztion without any regard to reality.

...

As suggested by others, take some night classes on organizational behavior, perhaps accounting and the requirements for a masters in business administration. Some writing classes may help to target the information in a report to convince others to go-you-way on an issue, etc. Learn the people evaluation skills from technical papers. Learn how to delegate authority - while maintaining sufficient oversight to take responsibility for the acts of those reports.

GOOD LUCK!

John

 

[buzzp]

To say that everyone wants to be a manager is wrong. I have been a technical manager before and did not care for it much. The reasons being obvious, lack of technical work, ridiculous hours, paper pushing, and personnel issues (not only scraps amongst employees but even harder to deal with is dumb decisions from upper management which you have to enforce or pass on to employees).

 

[HgTX]

I know buzzp was answering the original poster and not me, but I wanted to make sure I wasn't misunderstood. I didn't mean that everyone should want to be a manager. What I meant was that if he wants to be a manager, he does need to plan for it; "it will come to you when time comes" just isn't true.

Hg

 

[jsummerfield]

buzzp expressed my experience well.

John

 

[buzzp]

HgTx, you were right, that comment was for the original poster. I do agree that if you plan on being a manager someday that you do need to plan for it, dont count on it. This can be planned by brown nosing whenever possible (kind of a joke but not really) and more seriously, taking classes on how to deal with difficult people and getting the most out ou your employees, how to be an effective leader, etc... Chances are, these classes would be paid for out of your own pocket, unless you work for the government.
Also along the lines of being a brownie, you need to show that your a company man from the beginning (always stay late and arrive early, volunteer for highway clean-ups, etc). All of these will help you get the manager position you want (or you think you want).

 

[svanels]

Manager is a sandwich position, blows from above, kicks from beneath

Below wants that you stand up against the dumb decisions from above, and they are behind you (far...behind, watching with binoculars you getting crushed)

Your subordinates screw up, you will take the first punch.

You ought to know everything what is happening

Everybody wants the managers pay but not the responsibilities

It is easier to deal with machines then people..

Don't let this scare you, if you like to coach people, it can be fun


Steven van Els
SAvanEls@cq-link.sr

 

[HVAC68]

I have been a "Manager" at various levels for several years now. It's not easy - as you are sandwiched between the boss and the sub-ordinates. But, that's your job - to manage !!! I don't fully agree that one loses touch of technical aspects - it depends on the type of job, on your involvement and the willingness to put in a little bit of extra time to keep yourself abreast of the technical aspects as well. As one grows in an organisation in the management cadre, one tends to lesser and lesser of technical aspects and more and more of man/material/money management.

You need to be mentally prepared to work as a Manager - doesn't come automatically to everybody. As somebody suggested, go for some night classes or browse the net and learn more about "Organisation Behaviour", "Negotiation Skills", "Money/Finance Management", "Decision Making Skills", "Marketing", "Public speaking", etc.

Also learn Power point, excel, charts - these are required literally on a daily basis !!!

HVAC68

 

[IRstuff]

It used to be that being a manager was de-rigeur for advancement. Under those conditions, you would have to become a manager to prevent yourself from topping out, both financially and rankwise.

However, in many companies, that is, happily, no longer the case. Many companies have explicitly created a dual career path for those who, like myslef, have little or no interest in management. I can happily stay a technoweenie FOREVER!!

Obviously, my sway over company performance and direction is highly limited, but from what I've seen, even those in charge are seldom really in charge anyway.

TTFN

 

[brainstorming]

I respect all of your answers and views with respect to the management.
But you forget something that is important in the management or "to be a manager" that is the qualification degrees.
would you think that a higher qualification has a better chance in his/her organization to reach the management ladder than those with not having nor more than a B.S. provided that they are almost equivalent in other aspects such as experience, field ..etc.?
Secondly, I agree with your suggestions to take management courses at free-time to build up skills which are in touch with people, money, equipment ..etc
Is anybody did take courses in management "not those given by the company" and find that it is worth and help in getting good skills?

Regards to all of you
"To be a manger"

 

[FalsePrecision]

I have been the "pointy-haired manager" and the "Dilbert" in different previous jobs. I would rather be the Dilbert. Management is a lot of trying to get motivated to do something productive each day, instead of just counting beans. Design engineering is much self-motivating for me.

 

[jsummerfield]

Advanced degrees are not especially significant for design engineering organizations and is significant in a research organization. Business and the HR related topics are as important as the technical degrees for most opportunities. An MBA or JD would be helpful.

Continued course tuition may be reimbursible. I took graduate classes at the university night school. The company often rewards thos who appear suited for management with the 2-3 day group sessions such as Negotiation, Effective Presentations, Effective Writing, etc. Once into the supervisory levels thay likely provide training on employee evaluations and a host of the EEOC harassment type issues.

John

 

[brainstorming]

"Advanced degrees are not especially significant for design engineering organizations and is significant in a research organization."
I don’t agree with you in this statement that will de motivate the engineers from being engineers with advanced degrees and broad thinking and much better imagination and brainstorming even they are working with design eng. organ.
Back to the main subject "To be a manger", mangers need such skills from thinking ahead and out of the box, doing and setting goals for future while they consider the past, motive staff to do imagination and practising brainstorming (not me!)
They are many things the advanced degree holders have and lead direct or indirect to the management rather than those without the advanced degree.

Does this make sense to you guys?

 

[buzzp]

The latest post asked about degrees helping one become a manager. I would say it helps when the other candidate has no degree. As far as two technical degrees helping one to land a manager position vs one with only one technical degree, I dont think it would have any effect. Of course, if the degree is in business management or similar, obviously it would help.

 

[Slugger926]

I would recommend taking the Dale Carnegie class. It helps tremedously in dealing with people. Also, once you take it you will know when upper mangement is trying to use it on you. I was lucky in that my company paid for me to take it when I was fairly fresh out of school. Everyone else taking the class was Sr. VP - CEO levels taking it a few years before they retired.

I have been up and down on the resposibility ladder (but not with the title or pay) with as many as 25 engineers under me. I enjoyed the part where I could direct multiple engineering jobs and help out where needed, and at the same time take care of the upper executives quickly.

The part I didn't enjoy, and also observed is that the upper executives became clueless as to what was going on. They were ordering engineering to build out more and faster in spending as much as $400 million in a quarter while we watched our customer's going bankrupt. We knew what was going to happen with us spending like crazy and customers leaving in herds, but the upper exec's were cashing stock options at the same time and not mending the company.

Well, one of the upper exec's bosses just was convicted of fraud and is facing up to 85 years. If they would have been a little more in touch with reality, he wouldn't have been convicted and many managers would still have either stock or jobs.

Good luck.

 

[svanels]

Managing has all to do with working with people. I have seen people who think that rushing for a degree is the way to "buy" them self into management (MBA). My opinion is that 70% will make lousy managers, the kind that give more value to "stock gambling" then sound bussiness plans and vision.
Also management comes with time, the managers I have been working under all had technical degrees as a basis. Mechanical and chemical engineering.
In your case you could work toward a management position by asking your boss to lead small or big projects to hone your leadership skills. I don't know the bussiness your in, but I would imagine things like turnarounds, or other projects that involve dealing with people and activities. If you are succesfull, you are likely to receive specialized training to boost up your management skills, and they can work towards a career plan for you.

Steven van Els
SAvanEls@cq-link.sr

 

[brainstorming]

Svanels
I shouldn't ask projects from my boss to build my skills in leadership he should give me himself.
I experienced this sometimes when my boss gave some responsibilities and with time he has started given me more responsibilities. The reason that I was doing my best in the first time I was given the responsibility so that he would trust with my capabilities and leadership.
I was successful in the next responsibility and the result that a good picture of leadership has been shown to my boss.

By this, I wouldn't ask the boss for responsibilities but rather he should give himself.

Regards

 

[flamby]

Fair point. Sometimes holding the initiative back gives you a chance to negotiate.

You may plan to work on your language skills. It will help you sometime later in managment life.

Ciao.