Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering? 11

[HydroScope]

Hi There,

I have fairly recently become a sales engineer, for a industrial automation company. having sucessfully found this website usefull for technical issues in the past. I thought I would come back for some so called side issues as an engineer in my case "selling" as a profession. The products that my company deal with are the usual, servo/stepper motors, screw jacks, linear motors, through to linear bearing, worm drive slew rings. We have a broad range of clients from the defence force, mining, aerospace, theatre and factory automation. Obviously we make our money from advising our clients on our products. Before I became a sales engineer I had no experience and no "sales training" now my company would like me to get involved with some sales training. Assuming there are many sales engineers on this forum, I would like to ask two questions? 1) Is sales engineering not seen as a branch of engineering and hence does not exsist as a branch on this forum 2) Do you know of any usefull sales training that a sales engineer can make use of? as the boss needs an answer soon on a training course I would like to do. ;O) I'm struggling to find a course because I don't understand the so called skills I need apart from the obvious "knowing our product range very well". Thanks in advance for your help ;o)

 

[KENAT]

Oh yeah. JMW, touched a raw nerve or what. I usually enjoy your diatribes but even I couldn't bring myself to read all of that;-).

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies:

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[zdas04]

HydroScope,
As you might expect from the above, we've all been inundated with high school drop-out morons with business cards calling themselves "Sales Engineer". I personally think it is an offensive term. If you are an Engineer that has budgetary responsibility for sales then you are a "Salesman". If you are a Salesman with an Engineering degree then you are a ... "Salesman". There is nothing in this world wrong with being a Salesman and if that is your job you should be proud of it and do it the best (and most ethically) that you can. Bastardizing it by calling yourself a "Sales Engineer" feels really small and insecure.

By the way, if you're in the U.S. then unless you have a PE many states can present you with a citation and a fine if you have "Engineer" on your business card--many Engineers will call the board when they get your card to see if you are on the PE list, we can be vindictive jerks just like anyone.

I've know a bunch of Applications Engineers with responsibilities for supporting sales and these guys rarely make first contact, but for the most part they are real assets to both the client and the vendor.

The comment above that every Engineering Consultant is either a salesman or bankrupt is very true. Every one of us is selling our services every day on every job, but the emphasis has to be on doing the job and the sales has to be pretty subtle.

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering

http://www.muleshoe-eng.com

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts" Patrick Moynihan

 

[ctopher]

I have worked with plenty of purchasing people that think they are engineers.

Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 3.1
AutoCAD 08; CATIA V5
ctopher's home (updated Aug 5, 2008)
ctopher's blog
SolidWorks Legion

 

[zdas04]

Really, most purchasing people I've worked with don't see any reason that Engineers even exist in this world.

David

 

[rbulsara]

Take away computer, car, cell phone, TV and remote, lights, electric power from their house, the bridge they cross everyday from those purchasing people, and they will soon realize.

I think taking away TV remote alone would suffice!

 

[zdas04]

If they could make the leap from being inconvenienced to "and Engineer designed this" then they wouldn't be in Purchasing. Take away their TV remote and they'll be pretty sure that it is a Vendor screwing them.

David

 

[rbulsara]

The world is not fair to engineers..

 

[hokie66]

HydroScope,

They are hard on you, aren't they? In Australia, we prefer the term "technical representative", and one has to both be an engineer and know his stuff to be heard in a consultant's office. Of course, if he springs for lunch, that is a different thing.

 

[KENAT]

JMW, I revisited your post took a look at

http://www.marketingtoday.com/marketing/toengine.htm

and found it interesting.

Follows a lot of my own impressions on this stuff.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies:

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[HydroScope]

WOW!! I never expected so many replies, I have really hit a nerve in the engineering field . . . . thankyou all for your replies you all made me feel so much better about my job believe it or not. . . . for the sake of defending myself as an engineer

I graduated from University of Technology, Sydney (UTS) 2005, Bachelor of Engineering, Mechanical. Sandwich/partime study, I.E. I worked the whole time(yes! engineering) . . . I am experienced in solid works 3D and autocad, after working a few years intital with fathers electrical contacting I am up to speed with electrical logic etc. and now feel I have stepped up the chain by working for a "mechatronics company". Sales engineer to me just means I'm the one whom physical see's and talks to the clients and figures out what they are "really" trying to acheive! and advises how to do this after consulting our companies "think tank" which is our suppliers mostly overseas and other "ALL" "qaulified engineers".

Our clients are people like "boeing aerostructures", All the mining corp's you poke a stick at that wont buy anything unless its specified by a 12inch thick document. The list goes on for the Defence force contractors. and the general industrial automation. We sign many NDA's and hence cannot mention those projects on here.

now for the final statement, thankyou for the link

tp://

http://www.marketingtoday.com/marketing/toengine.htm

I read it and loved it! I heard my boss desrcibe my job as looking for "value adding projects" this discribes our company. I'm work for a VAR!! and we often sell to OEM!! we have lathes and milling machines, along with skilled welders etc. I.E. modifing otherwise of the shelf products for specific projects.

Keep up the replies, and links. I particularly liked the comment about them darn sales guys whom do cold calling, they do it me too!! and for your information cold calling on our clients is completely against our company policy all meeting need to be quantified!


I am still looking for a sales training course: I think my boss want me to do something with following issues, please reply if you have done any such thing?

Territory management
Call plans etc

 

[jmw]

Phew! an engineer!

It sounds to me as if this isn't a typical management rich, skills poor, by-the-management-book global company... and if it was they'd be busy sending you down HR's well trodden path with a standard training course.
Just a suspicion it may be the sort of company where you can write your own rules so long as you deliver the results.

I heard my boss desrcibe my job as looking for "value adding projects" this discribes our company.

It makes sense with such an ambition that the man at the sharp end (you) has a lot of engineering skills and can recognise opportunities to do just that.

This is not a typical sales job, but your clients will have their own perceptions of what a sales engineer is and you may want to not drag that around with you.

I suggest you and our boss need a new job title for you which doesn't include sales in the title .... Regional Project Engineer? I'm sure the folks here can think up some alternatives.

I'm sure any standard sales training course will give you a lot of the routine management tips and it should help you recognise:
[ul][li]objections and how to manage them[/li]
[li]buying signals- how to recognise them and what to do (close the sale, if you keep talking you may talk yourself out of the sale again) [/li]
[li]how to close or more important, how to ask for the order[/li][/ul]

Er, many a salesperson doesn't remember any of these things from training. Salespersons are often idiots, as an engineer you can't afford to take on the whole sales mentality. So if you get a standard sales course, just take from it the bits you need. I've been on a couple but many years ago and I've also been on a few "demonstrators" where some company wanted to sell us a training package. Most seem to be a bit gimmicky and each has some kind of "signature" selling feature. Just go on one or two and sort the wheat from the chaff... if you don't like some of what they are telling you you can be sure your clients won't want you trying that on them.

One tip: forget that old saw "The customer is always right." Customers are rarely right and often come to the table with half-formed or incomplete ideas of what they want to do.

Knowledge is key and you have to listen and ask questions first and find out not just what the client thinks he wants to do but what he'd really like to do but didn't tell you. Collect the facts, question everything and be sure you understand. When clients tell you what they want that is often shaped by what they think can be done or it may be influenced by a false impression of costs.



JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[SomptingGuy]

Knowledge is key and you have to listen and ask questions first and find out not just what the client thinks he wants to do but what he'd really like to do but didn't tell you. Collect the facts, question everything and be sure you understand. When clients tell you what they want that is often shaped by what they think can be done or it may be influenced by a false impression of costs.

Too true. Customers so often try to tell you what the solution should be rather than what the problem is.


- Steve

 

[PeterStock]

HydroScope's descripton of his duties reads to me like an Application Engineer.

Peter Stockhausen
Senior Design Analyst (Checker)
Infotech Aerospace Services

 

[bk19702]

We all knew you were really an engineer Hydro, don't worry. It was just when you mentioned the "S" word that the allergic reaction triggered in most of us. I think JMW has a good idea about working on a different job title - minus the "sales" word. Agree 100% on the comment about some customers always wanting to tell you what the solution should be - I've experienced that sort of attitude many times during my field work.

 

[rbulsara]

Take up Dale Carnegie's sales course. Google for it.

 

[TPL]

Its probably wrong and cetainly not PC, but my experience to date is that anyone who who doesn't work in a retail establishment and has the prefix 'sales' to their job title is simply the spawn of beelzebub.

Having said that, try getting hold of a book called Strategic Selling by Miller and Heimann: this gives some really useful insights into the psychology of making a sale from the seller to customer.

 

[KENAT]

The customer isn't always right in retail, let alone in a more technical field.

However, it often pays to make them think they're right, be it by convincing them to come round to your point of view or otherwise.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies:

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[zdas04]

The best Applications Engineers I've ever worked with have been able to convince me that their best ideas were really my ideas. It is a tough skill that pays really great dividends.

David

 

[HydroScope]

"one tip: forget that old saw "The customer is always right." Customers are rarely right and often come to the table with half-formed or incomplete ideas of what they want to do."

Already experience this one many times! it's been my biggest learning experience since starting at this firm!.

Thanks again for the posts, when I understand the sales skills specific to engineering, I may just start a section on this forum ;o) to the delight of so many that have replied ;o).

 

[rbulsara]

Well, it depends who the customers are!

If you are a "sales engineer", more often than not your clients will be the engineers who design and specify stuff for living. Trying to prove them wrong will not be very rewarding.