Why V4 and V5?

[friedrich]

Hi all,

I'm just a quite recent V5 user and I just don't understand some things about the "Catia strategy".

Why did Dassault launch the V5, and so many subsequent releases?

Today many companies are still using V4. Did Dassault expect them to migrate to V5? Why do they stick to V4 anyway? And what is the V5 for, if so many people seem happy with V4? Who's wrong, the "conservative" V4 users or Dassault with its "revolutionnary" V5?


I just don't get it. Somebody could please enlighten me?

Thanks!

 

[AXXX]

Hi,

V4 had the best math engine of any CAE/CAD product on the market, but was based on old technology: pull down menus instead of icons and B-rep based algorithms (surfaces and wireframme); thus, users took a while to achieve high efficiency when using the tool.
V5 philosophy is: an engineer shouldn't be struggling with the tool, instead should focus on design.
V5 is icon driven, algorithms are mostly based on CSG technology (boolean operations on solids), was written to run on NT boxes with higher precision, math engine for B-reps was improved....reflects present and future technology.
Like everything people/companies are afraid of new technology, but they will see the light one day, either by their own initiative or because they will be slightly persuaded...

Hope this helps
cheers

 

[CATMANDO2]

I have about 12,000 hrs in V4, and about 1,500 in V5. If you have used V4 you wouldn't need to ask the question. Dassault developed CATIA long before PC's had any power, therefore they used UNIX. UNIX systems require unique and expensive equipment and support. Just to get away from UNIX is good enough to justify the change, but there is more. V4 is the most difficult cad system to learn and use. I know many people (usually supervisors) that have spent thousands of hours on V4 and never got good at it. If you do not use V4 everyday, all day, you probably won't get very proficient at it. V5 has more user friendly windows based interface. There are still some things that get complex in V5, but the basics are simple. In V4 the rule is: CATIA makes complex thing simple, but it make simple things (too)complex.

 

[Qube]

I've got the feeling that every CAD on windows platform is getting soooo slow. New releases with loads of fancy tools are srugling with performance. It seems that no copmuter can handle the requirements of today's CAD software :-(

 

[CATMANDO2]

Parametrics, another advantage V5 has over V4. I was working on an airfoil with the process as follows: Create points, from which you create curves, then a surface from the curves, close the surfaces into a volume, then extract a solid. I would then union the solid onto the mounting flanges and put a fillet on between the foil and the flanges. In order to make a change you had to tear everything down, move a point(s), and recreate the whole thing. One iteration took a couple of hours. With the paremetrics in V5, you can leave the whole structure up, and just move the point(s). It take a few minutes to update, but this is much faster than tearing down and recreating each step.

 

[jackk]

I used to use a drafting board and paper cloth and pencils to make drawings. Worked pretty well then, and still works pretty well today. Especially with those new mechanical pencils and electric erasers. Nowadays, so many companies are using this new CAD stuff. CAD is great for new drawings, but I still have to use the drawing board and pencil to change those old drawings of mine. Why did we ever switch to CAD?

 

[AG62]

Hey Jack,
For which museum do you work?????!!!!

 

[jackk]

AG62: the Modern Musuem of Scarcastic Comments

 

[tbuelna]

frierich:

At my job I use both V4 and V5, depending on what project I'm working on. V5 is a CAD software that is oriented for companies that are doing large production, and have the associated budget and schedule. Producing a proper CATIA V5 parametric database for a given part is very time consuming and extreme care must be exercised to ensure that it is done properly. If the solid model database is done absolutely correct, it is a very powerful tool indeed. Every one on the program can work from that digital database, including analysts, manufacturing, QC, suppliers or even customers. Since it's parametric and fully linked through PDM and PLM softwares, any change by the designer is carried thru to all parties involved. In a perfect world, all the end users have to do is hit the "update" icon when there is a change, and the software takes care of the rest.

The downside with V5 is that since every part of the parametric databse is linked or has a relation to another part, any change made can have serious consequences if not well thought out.

What I have found from my experience is that if you need something modeled quick, and don't expect a lot of revisions, you're better off with good 'ol V4. If you want sophistication and flexibilty, use V5 (just make sure you learn to use the software properly!).

Regards,
Terry

 

[Slipson]

Thanks alot for all comments. I am currently struggling with how to convince my company to leave the steam machine V4 and start to use the jetplane V5 instead. All your comments express the feeling I have: V5 is a far better tool than V4, definitely more flexible but you better learn to use it right or else you will probably end up in a circular update loop with a bunch of error messages.
I have learned to appreciate the error messages. They are logical, and quite easy to understand. The error messages in V4 was, as I remembered it, a bunch of numerical expression which forced you to look into a bible-thick manual to find out if the line was to short for the operation you wanted to perform..
I would say: Give Catia V5 6 months, learn it the right way and you can start to count the hours you save in your daily(!) work.
But don't mention Enovia....

 

[friedrich]

Hello Slipson,

You're talking about "learning Catia the right way". Are you talking about formal training?

I learned Catia "my way", and as we all know there's good and bad in self-training (a lot of good, hopefully )

For example, in assembly design, I begin with a part containing only geometry and parameters, then I to go the "visible" parts.

How can I know that I'm doing things properly? What are the "best practises" with this tremendous piece of software?

Thanks.

 

[kanpara]

Hi, all.

CATMANDO2 mentioned ...UNIX systems require ..expensive equipment...

I understand from V5 user that V5 does not require expensive hardward but a lot more modules than V4.0, which eventually ends up more or less same amount of money required. As a V4 user, I would like to say aloud that "pull down menus" and "icons" does not make any difference at all. With limited budget for CAD software, how can you convince "my company to leave ... V4 and start to use ... V5 instead". Let me continue to "struggle with" V4 for another 3 years at least.

kanpara

 

[itsmyjob]

Hi,

So far I have seen more stuff i can do with V5 (and not V4) than stuff I can do in V4 (and not in V5).

People going from one CAD (ie V4) to another ( ie...V5?) will always notice the bad stuff, every little thing that used to work in the previous CAD and doesn't work in the new one is a BIG problem. Then often forget about all the new good stuff available in the new CAD.

I have seen user from V4 to V5 and other from ProE to V5. All of them are missing good stuff from ProE or V4 but...when I ask them which CAD they prefer to use they all agree: V5, even if some functions are missing, even with all the bug...



Eric N.

catiav5@softhome.net