Will Discipline Help? 4

[mrmrec]

I'm a manufacturing engin. for a small oil field tools manufacturer. The atmosphere is VERY relaxed. No records are being kept on anyone’s tardiness or absences. Can anyone share their experience on a similar shop, and if this is a good way to run a plant. The system is not set-up to discipline workers, rather no one is in charge of it. Our company has a very good reputation for quality. Also my boss seems to have an aversion to discipline, but has not convinced me of it.

E.C.

 

[Barry1961]

I worked at a small shop making custom robots like that. It worked very well with everyone one doing whatever it took to get the job done right. After the company grew to the point where we were hiring un-skilled labor we had to put strict policies in place.

I guess it just depends on the people.

Barry1961

 

[PSE]

If the work is being done on time, meets the quality requirements and managements expectations for profit margins, being able to run such a flexible work schedule is a very nice "benefit" to the workers. It is a signal to the employees that they are considered professional enough to come in and do what it takes to get the job done. What does your "gut" tell you? Is the relaxed atmosphere because people have ingrained what they need to do (the well oiled machine) or is it because they just do not seem to care?

That said, can such a atmosphere be abused? You bet.
Can greater efficiencies be obtained with instilling structure and discipline into the operation? Probably.
Is instituting policies and discipline structures likely to cause an adverse reaction with the employees? Possibly, it is primarily a management decision as to the relative merit of such procedures.

I have worked in both tightly controlled and "lax" environments and am currently working for a company that falls in between the two. The main issue I ever had with the "lax" system was timely communication. If you are in a facility with a good "feel" to it, communication is where I would recommend looking for ways to further improve efficiencies.

Regards,

 

[mrmrec]

My gut feeling is that people just don't care. The "good" workers are the ones that complain about how the supervisor has no control, or that they do'nt enforce anything. They see others getting away with milking the clock, comming in late....
I would classify the machine operators as high skilled yet they seem to get away with abusing the system. There is oppurtunity in improving on time delivery, cleaningness, and tardiness. I'm afraid that by introducing policies aim at reducing tardiness, and absentism may backfire and create a division between management and the labor force.
Will keeping track of these things help improve any operational efficiencies?

Thank you Barry and PSE for your input.


E.C.

 

[PSE]

mrmrec,

If people are not caring, it is a sure way to poison the "good" workers. One way you could test the waters is by doing just what you propose in terms of keeping track of the variables. Word will get out that such things as delivery, tardiness, absenteeism, and area cleanliness are being looked at. Behavior is likely to change despite there not being any "official" new policies in place. Sometimes this technique can nudge behavior in the right direction rather than bringing out the policy "hammer".

Regards,

 

[mrmrec]

I think I understand what you are saying, PSE. I may keep track of some of these variables. This data could be used atmost for making decisions for SYSTEM change, or atleast just for my education. If trends are found then system changes may be considered, but not in the form of a policy "hammer". How can we change the system, to aid personel improvement of items mentioned in this thread. Its a simple question, with a difficult answer to achieve.

 

[PSE]

A bit of a re-iteration of my previous post.

When word gets around to the floor (and it will) that those variables you mention are being looked at, I am quite sure that behavior will change. For example, whenever I conduct a formal time study (sitting with the operator observing etc), I always end up with a different result than if I conduct a more "covert" study. Once the employees find out that monitoring may be taking place, their behavior will change even without formal policies. It's like coming across a speed trap on the highway when you are travelling within the limits. You still end up glancing at the speedometer and perhaps slowing down anyway.

Regards,

 

[tgeorge]

Slightly offtopic, this is about time studies.

You know, I must be in a nice spot. I came in to a company expect to have to things like PSE, I.E. observe covertly. But I have seen to have stumbled into a trick, dont know if it works all the time so YMMV.

Talk to the operators, something around this,

"You are timing not them, but the job that they are doing, and dont really care who is doing and that you will be mixing the operator times up anyways, so its totally anonymous. That you really worried about making it unreasonable, both for them and the company that employs them. Cant have it set too easy, because then the company will lose money and ultimately we will get a bad paycheck/lose it, and cant set it too high, because then its unfair for you and I know doing a bad job sucks. If you have any suggestions on improving job feel free to tell me and I will see what I can do."

After giving that speech (and asking their foreman/teamleader for permission) I seem to have gotten the floor on "my side." About half of the job improvement suggestions actually come from pretty good questions/and suggestions on the floor.

Ofcourse a lot of that comes from prompt feedback on their suggestions, both good and bad.

And, yes occasionally, at the beggining I was having to rate someone working at 80% efficiency (I havent told them I do that or other IE tricks), but after a while you kinda get accepted and get decent times. Some of the more motivated even go a bit faster for some reason, and I have to scale it back too. (I dont tell them that as well, though I do compliment either the operator or the team leader when I see it.)

Heh, now I get team leaders coming to me wanting to document everything that they do on the line.

Might be just my particular mix of people so your mileage may vary (we are non unionized). But I cant stress enough on getting people involved.

So for your case, I would alter it by saying you are looking for ways to make it, "fair." Take suggestions. Work with em a bit. Say what you think is reasonable, then query them if that is reasonable to them (maintain control of the conversation like that, and start with the "good" operators first). After about a week or two of that, then start asking for suggestions (give them time to get used to you) if they make one, think about it, and respond back after an apropriate amount of time.


Hope it helps

 

[svanels]

Some questions:

1) How long are you with this company?
2) Do you know their company culture?
3) Do already know the formal and informal
lines?
4) Did you see them in action during "peak" times, and who are assigned to the "special forces"?

The "good" workers are the ones that complain about how the supervisor has no control, or that they do'nt enforce anything

1) Is that your own opinion or theirs opinion.
2) "Good worker" must me defined better. Does he sits with you at the lunch to discuss, or is it the guy who is known and respected in the shop, you know the type of guy everybody search for when something unusual happens.
3) Workers complaining about supervisory/management, especially to a new-commer are not a reliable source of information

tgeorge
Work with em a bit.

And form your own opinion.

 

[UKMartin]

tgeorges story isn't so very offtopic. He answers the question about whether formal disciplne would be a useful policy to have at mrmrec's business unit.

Firstly: It seems to me that you may/may not have a problem with lateness or absenteeism. What you DO have is a potential problem. Not keeping records seems to me to be a foul-up waiting to happen. When there's an accident in the factory or a major quality problem, could the absence of a key operator be a significant factor? Just picture the headlines in the local press after some incident. "Record-keeping non-existent at local facility..."

Secondly: You have a right as a manager to put reasonable systems in place to measure attendance and timekeeping. The real trick lies in getting the buy-in of the employees to their introduction. That's where tgeorges posting is right on-message. Announce that you intend to put a system in place to keep track of lateness and absence and get them to suggest the best way to keep track of these variables.

You'll get moans (from some, not all) but will get the co-operation of the majority of your people - all the ones who mostly arrive on time and have a good attendance record.

Remember, if I'm a worker at your facility who keeps good time and has a good attendance record, I'm already aware that some of my colleagues get away with being less dedicated than me. I'll not be threatened by such a system. I might complain quietly that the old relaxed atmosphere has gone but I won't obstruct.

In summary, yes you need a system to keep records. If it's to work, you'll need to announce it really carefully and make a major effort to 'bring people on board'

Hope this helps

 

[griffengm]

mrmrec,
I can only speak from my experience so apply my statements carefully.
I once worked for a similar company and all was fine until a dissatisfied coworked complained to the local labor relations board. When they swooped in they messed up what had been a good thing for those of us willing to work with it.
Key issues from LRB were no records to verify time worked and that some people were working 40+ hours this week so they could take time off next week.
Find out what regulations are in place. Some of these are regulated by the company's policies, e.g. Does OT kick in after 40 hours work or after eight hours for the day. The owner does have some leeway but needs to take action before LRB gets involved. If he has not addressed this they will and maybe not to his liking.
Educate yourself and then him is needed.

Griffy

 

[mrmrec]

Thanks, griffengm, for adding one more consideration to this topic. I had never imagine a situation with LBR. I don't think(?) my situation will involve any outside intervention.

I hate to say it but I'll be riding the fence on this one. Not a disciplinarian, and not carefree as the wind. As I start to gain peoples confidence in my company I'll start to adress some of these issues, and inform the men of certian policy, but at the same time treating them as professionals.

UKMartin has a well put second point.

My new concern is being allowed to carry this out. My boss/owner of the company complains to me about the problems, but up to now has not been very supportive of the whole "discipline" movement. Maybe I'm presenting it wrong to him. Is there a euphemism for discipline?

 

[UKMartin]

Yeah, it's called management. Or maybe 'protecting your company'

UKMartin

 

[griffengm]

mrmrec,
The LRB will investigate any complaint they receive, justified or not. The complaint may be about something unrelated to the issues discussed here but once LRB pokes it's nose in they will poke into everything. Arabs have a saying that if the camel gets his nose in your tent the rest is sure to follow. Kinda like having a fire in your house - actual flames may be limited but the stink goes everywhere!
One thing business owners do not like is being exposed to legal action. If some of your practices can be construed as unfair then the ethical action is to make your boss aware. When doing this make sure you point out the appropriate options. It saves him time and indicates your concern for your workplace.
Good luck.

Griffy

 

[automatic2]

We also build specialized oilfield equipment. Here is how we've managed to maintian a very dynamic work environment. Our original shop operated much as you describe. A group of very astute individuals teaming together to build unique products. When the decision was made to mass produce several products, we decided that rather than expanding or altering this team, we would create an entirely different division to do the production. The original team work as they always have. The production centre is completely seperate and organized much differently.

 

[mrmrec]

Automatic2, could you elaborate more about how you made a more dynamic environment? How was the behavior of the orignal team? Was the orginal shop very relaxed, and people given freedoms, where they took advantage of them, like coming in late, or not coming in at all? Or did they appreciate thier freedoms and thrived in that environment? So you hired a whole new team to mass produce certain items, and the orginal team was allow to continue as they were? I'm very curious.

Regards,
E.C.

 

[automatic2]

The're given freedoms, but they haven't abused them. That's not to say we haven't discussed common objectives, or addressed members who have developed diverging philosophies.

 

[cobob]

Why you have to change something if is running well? If you don't like find another job!