Will Discipline Help? 7

[mrmrec]

I'm a manufacturing engin. for a small oil field tools manufacturer. The atmosphere here is VERY relaxed. No records are being kept on anyone’s tardiness or absences. Can anyone share their experience on a similar shop, and if this is a good way to run a plant. The system is not set-up to discipline workers, rather no one is in charge of it. Our company has a very good reputation for quality. Also my boss seems to have an aversion to discipline, but has not convinced me of it.

E.C.

 

[MikeHalloran]

Tardiness does affect product quality, but not how you think.

Start hassling people about their presence/absence, and you'll convert a 'we' shop into a 'me/they' shop, and your quality will disappear. So, eventually, will your company.








Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[Ashereng]

Our company has a very good reputation for quality. Also my boss seems to have an aversion to discipline, but has not convinced me of it.

I would say that the proof is in the pudding.

Just because you don't understand it, doesn't mean it isn't valid.

Could this be a case of "not invented here" syndrome?

 

[mrmrec]

I would venture to say that there is a lot of oppurtunity for improvement using stricter policies. To me holding people accountable seems likelow lying fruit. I'm trying to convince myself to looking at the system rather than the people. For example, my boss wants a TOUR ready facility. There is one guy incharge of cleaning up the shop and idle machines. Meaning that the operators do not leave a clean machine when they are finished with it. Would'nt we have a tour ready shop if the operators cleaned after themselves and not rely on the clean-up guy. The supervisor will tell operators to clean up if they have finished a part, but they'll find something else to do leaving shavings behind.

What do you mean by "not invented here" syndrome?

E.C.

 

[MikeHalloran]

One problem with conducting tours: Visitors will see what you are doing. Some of them will understand more than you might like. Vendors and customers visit your competitors, too.

Bigger problem with conducting tours: Visitors will see what you are _not_ doing. Smart people can infer a lot of commercially valuable information from that.

;--

If the operators were paid to clean the machines, _and_ if they were not paid for not cleaning the machines, they would clean the machines.

BUT ... adding negative incentives and thorough recordkeeping will change the culture of your company and cut into its productivity. If you have to double the headcount to get the same production numbers but with documented quality and a squeaky clean shop, the big boss may be disappointed at the cost of the results.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[Ashereng]

The atmosphere here is VERY relaxed. No records are being kept on anyone’s tardiness or absences. Can anyone share their experience on a similar shop, and if this is a good way to run a plant.

The way your boss runs his shop is very relaxed, no records are kept, etc.

The system is not set-up to discipline workers, rather no one is in charge of it.

and

I would venture to say that there is a lot of oppurtunity for improvement using stricter policies.

Seems like you would like more discipline, more policies, more strictler policies, enforcement of policies, etc.

Our company has a very good reputation for quality.

Seems like you boss is doing a lot of stuff right. A company usually doesn't get a reputation for "Good Quality" by doing shoddy work.

Also my boss seems to have an aversion to discipline, but has not convinced me of it.

You are not convinced. Your boss is doing it a different way from the way you want to do it.

This is what I mean by "not invented here" syndrome.

 

[looslib]

Just remember the number 1 rule at work:
The boss is always right.
And the number 2 rule:
If the boss is wrong, see rule number 1.

Have you been charged with improving attendance records or improving shop attitudes? If not, then leave it alone and see rule #1.


"Wildfires are dangerous, hard to control, and economically catastrophic."

Ben Loosli
Sr IS Technologist
L-3 Communications

 

[mrmrec]

I'm not in charge of such assignment, but if I was. How could reduce absentism, tardiness without bringing it to their attention, or writing them up? I'm not against the way things are at my job. I just want to understand how this is working. How did we get a good reputation, our operators always comming in late, always calling in sick. Taking 30 minutes more on their lunch break, starting 15 minutes late in the morning and ending it 15 minutes early. Operators leaving a dirty machine after they are done, expecting someone else to pick it up. I've seen a machine with shavings on it for three days before the "clean-up" guy got to it. Having 15% to 20% of our jobs in the shop already past due, and another 25% of our jobs due this week.
I'm not trying to paint a dooms day picture, not all operators do this. The ones that act responsible are the ones that complain about the lack of control. We have a total of 20 shop employees, most with 7+ year tenures. Atleast half of all shop personel behave in the manner I'm describing. Keep in mind that I'm new to this company, and I'm going through a culture shock.
Eventually I'll just except the atmosphere and try my best to improve it with these guide lines. I'm just trying to understand it first.

Anyones input is very much appriciated.
Regards,
E.C.

 

[Ashereng]

Still can't believe that your boss' system is working huh? Oh well.

Instead of being so unbelieving and cynical at "How can this be?", try to see all the GOOD stuff that is happening.

People are coming in late, taking 30 minutes more at lunch...what's the big deal? Maybe they aren't busy at that point in time. Do these same guys give up their nights or weekends when the client has an emergency and come in and bust their behinds for the company?

I worked for a boss (who replaced the old one when he retired) who literally watched the clock. If you left 5 minutes early, or was 5 minutes late, you heard it. Guess what everyone started to do...yup, they waited until 3PM EXACTLY (that was shift change), dropped whatever they were doing, and left. If the work wasn't quite done, well, it was 3PM afterall. The extra effort that people used to put in to finish the job, to help out, to work a little extra unofficial OT was gone. The boss wanted us there 7-3, well, he got it. If someone was sick, or went to a meeting somewhere, our crews were left short - no one wanted to come in to help.

Gee...that's got to be good for the company reputation, not to mention work flow, quality, etc, in the long run?

 

[rhodie]

I'm not a "Quality Guy", but this thread strikes a chord with me. I agree with the tone of what mrmrec is trying to convey.

The perception of quality may be there, but it is nothing more than a thin facade. The perception of quality can be shaped any direction and linger for years by popular opinion regardless of an organization's considerable effort. (How many of you don't use PENNZOIL because of the "high parrafin content"... Do you shop the meat counter at FOOD LION anymore?)

The only way "quality" can be achieved is through a consistent practice of quality processes. This means discipline, adhereing to a standard- in both product and performance, and penalty enforcment when elements of that program that fall short.

I refuse to believe that quality is "good" by accident or through casual effort. It takes determination and discipline to become "quality", it does not happen as a result of carefree attitudes and effort.

The Malcolm Baldridge award sets aside a wonderful criteria for operational and organizational excellence - or "quality" if you prefer.

Sometimes the best event that can happen for a group of people is for someone within to stand up, not be shy of cracking skulls together, and to enforce a set of standards. I believe armies win wars based on that presumption.

I challenge you mrmrec to stand up and be that person. The greatest reward may be yours.

 

[Ashereng]

As with anything, there is more than one point of view, and more than one course of action.

Ultimately, we all should do what WE believe to be correct.

 

[mrmrec]

Everyone here has made very good points. I thank you all for your post. We can all argue for what is correct but I believe there may not be a right or a worng here.

Which ever way we decide (strict or carefree) the difference will be in execution and follow through.

 

[gbent]

What's the problem? Are you a control freak? Tight disipline does not mean a good shop, or a good work environment. The shop is probably operating the way the owner likes it.

 

[bill1898]

The major POTENTIAL problem in that environment is the fact that the boss does not address the non-conforming behavior of the slobs is an INSULT to those people that do obey the rules. The boss can make any rules he wants to, or not. The atmosphere need not be tightened dramatically, the boss, if he chooses to, just needs to let everyone know, as a group, that the FEW rules that do exist must be adhered to. If this is done, and enforced, it should result in a more acceptable work environment for the more conscientous workers. If the boss chooses not to do anything, start looking for another job.

 

[Saintor]

IMO, don't try to do your boss job.

If policies are not enforced/supported *in the long run* by him in a convincing manner, forget it. The employees will (naturally) find a preferable alternative in your boss at your detriment.

Too often I have seen managers like your boss to make policies and let it go by it laxism... This is a management style that you can't really change.

 

[Xofa]

The operators are not cleaning up after themselves. From a morale perspective I agree that everyone should clean up after themselves. But from a financial perspective having a skilled tradesman cleaning is not a good use of their time if the same cleaning can be done at a lower labor rate. Downtime is also an important consideration here. If the tradesman leaves the dirty machine and begins a setup on a clean machine there is a gain. If the trademan is not performed work while the cleaning is happens :-(

-John

 

[drozic]

Finally!

Someone addressed the financial side of this string.

I'm sorry, but "quality" is supplying the best product for the best cost. Downtime, late starts, and cleaning up after others add cost . . . and it is unneccessary cost.

Sometimes a company can plod along merrily on its reputation or its output, but at some point, the wasteful cost will overtake the momentum. It's like a ship on the ocean . . . stopping the ship is not instantaneous, it actually takes miles to occur.

Strict or carefree, lack of structure is deadly.

 

[FACS]

Trying to find a lost tool because the shop is messy is not a good use of time either.

Wrecking a part because chips piled up on the machine is not an effective use of materials.

Someone getting hurt because they trip or slip in a mess made by someone else adds cost to overhead.

Having customers look at a messy workplace can make them do business else where. A messy shop sometimes means messy work.

Paying someone to clean a mess in a small shop can cost more than having the employees clean up after themselves.

Having the mindset to keep a clean and orderly shop creates a quality atmosphere, and can only permeate into the product.

I own my shop and I vacuumed the office yesterday. I even cleaned the toilette and emptied the garbage cans. I really don't see how taking a little pride in your workplace can be a burden.

As for keeping track of attendance; as long as people understand that they work 40 hours a week, and they get their job done, there shouldn't be an issue. People need to communicate on the task at hand; everyone needs to understand what has to be finished, and who has the responsibility.

After that, you worry about yourself, not what others are doing.

Charlie

http://www.facsco.com

 

[Ashereng]

I'm a manufacturing engin. for a small oil field tools manufacturer. The atmosphere here is VERY relaxed. No records are being kept on anyone’s tardiness or absences. Can anyone share their experience on a similar shop, and if this is a good way to run a plant. The system is not set-up to discipline workers, rather no one is in charge of it. Our company has a very good reputation for quality. Also my boss seems to have an aversion to discipline, but has not convinced me of it.

This is the OP.

No messy shop. No one getting hurt. Good reputation for quality.

The only concerns are:
a) very relaxed atmosphere
b) some people seem to be tardy
c) system is not set-up to discipline workers


My comments, again:

a) I think this is a good thing
b) This is probably the owner's job to manage. Also, not sure if someone coming in late is tardy - he may be staying late or doing OT some other time.
c) Again, this is the owner's job to manage.

 

[rorschach]

I gotta agree with Ashereng, if the job is getting done at the end of the day, and nobody is pissed off, and everyone is willing to bust thier hump when it needs to get busted, adding the insult and stress of docking people for five minutes here or there will cost you WAY MORE in unproductive time. Unhappy people don't work effectively and they tend to sandbag and drag thier butt. You sir are a control freak and you are wanting to control something you clearly do not understand, that being human nature. Your boss is doing the right thing managing the dynamic of human interaction, You would do well to learn from this instead of trying to change it. Too many bosses try to micromanage thier people and they end up getting less than optimum work from thier people as a result. People are not machines, and they do not respond like machines. If you try to make them work harder by cracking the whip you will get even less productivity.