Will online degrees ever reach high status in the US? 11

[EngineerDave]

Will the online degree replace the traditional university degree with regards to engineering? There are several online degrees available now from places, including engineering masters degrees.

Here is what I see as the limitations of such a degree now:

1) Lack of hands-on classes, such as labs
2) Lack of name recognition bias (would you hire a grad of an online university or an established brick and mortar university)
3) Exam proctoring. Would all the exams now be open book?
4) Accreditation issues.

On the plus side, this would help many working professionals continue their education.

Does anyone have any experience with this? I personally have some with the videotape masters program that a company I work with offered. But I found that to be a watered down degree to serve the purposes of the automotive company I worked for.

 

[jmw]

Harking back to ElectricPete's earlier post, i am reminded of the song(?) "I'm a hell of a wreck from Georgia Tech, but a hell of an engineer!"
Anyone know it? Is there more?

JMW

http://www.viscoanalyser.com

eng-tips, Pro bono publico

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

"Si tacuisses philosophus mansisses"
"If you had kept quiet, you would have remained a philosopher"

 

[CajunCenturion]

That's from the Georgia Tech fight song, Ramblin Wreck from Georgia Tech.

Ramblin' Wreck
I'm a Ramblin' Wreck From Georgia Tech and a hell of an engineer.
A helluva helluva helluva helluva helluvan engineer.
Like all the jolly good fellows, I drink my whiskey clear,
I'm a Ramblin' Wreck from Georgia Tech and a hell of an engineer.

Oh, If I had a daughter, sir, I'd dress her in White and Gold.
And put her on the campus to cheer the brave and bold.
And if I had a son, sir, I'll tell you what he'd do,
He would yell "TO HELL WITH GEORGIA" like his daddy used to do.

I wish I had a barrel of rum and sugar three thousand pounds,
A college bell to put it in, and a clapper to stir it round.
I'd drink to all the good fellows who come from far and near,
I'm a ramblin, gamblin' hell of an engineer, Hey!

 

[jmw]

Thank you CajunCenturion!
Can you sing that for us, please?

JMW

http://www.viscoanalyser.com

eng-tips, Pro bono publico

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

"Si tacuisses philosophus mansisses"
"If you had kept quiet, you would have remained a philosopher"

 

[CajunCenturion]

LOL - There is a reason why I'm a software engineer, and not a singer.

 

[jmw]

The money?
//smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/5/5_1_118.gif

JMW

http://www.viscoanalyser.com

eng-tips, Pro bono publico

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

"Si tacuisses philosophus mansisses"
"If you had kept quiet, you would have remained a philosopher"

 

[bubb375]

I figured you guys may want the link:

http://cyberbuzz.gatech.edu/reck/sounds.html

You can hear all of our school songs. I am partial to White and Gold, and I can say with confidence I have never heard the Alma Mater sung.

Although I can't sing it for you, Gregory Peck has sings the first verse and a link is on the above site.

Have fun!

Brian

 

[EngineerDave]

Rambling wreck from Georgia Tech and a hell of an engineer. Not that I'm a Georgia Tech grad, but it was one school I considered for grad school.

 

[rhodie]

This type of thing can't help the cause any:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4951979/

 

[tulum]

Anyone have any thoughts on a school such as NTU (National Technological University)?

 

[zdas04]

I worked with a guy once who went to a school with a similar name. The first question I asked him (alcohol was involved) was "where did you hear about that school, a TV Guide insert?". He allowed as how that wasn't the first time he had heard that particular line and that I was welcome to do unspeakable things to myself. He also said that the school having a TV-Guide-Insert name had been a serious drawback in his job search.

I don't know that you'd have his problems with NTU, but I've seen folks who went to the University of Phoenix have similar problems (and it has a name that sounds almost mainstream).

A quality distance program at a "mainstream" school seems like a better bet to me.

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering

http://www.muleshoe-eng.com

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

The Plural of "anecdote" is not "data"

 

[aspearin1]

I opened up my latest ASME Mechanical Engineering magazine and saw much to my surprise, distance learning MS degrees for most of the top engineering choices at Kansas State University. I had planned to take some distance learning classes to transfer to my current school, but I never thought of obtaining my Masters completely via distance learning. Admittedly, I'm intrigued. I'm becoming quite interested at the prospect.

Let me ask electricpete... You've done it for graduate work, correct? How did you accomplish the hands-on laboratory assignments? Were there any?

For the record, I believe distance learning can be a great tool... provided it's done right. MBA's should be rather easy for distance learning. The more technical degrees (like engineering) are more difficult to cater to distance learning, but certainly not impossible. Considering the slow rise of distance learning, I'll assume proper measures are being taken to ensure quality instruction.

Also, it was brought to my attention by my own school administration that graduate studies do not require the same accredidation standards as undergraduate. An accredited school is accredited based in its undergraduate curriculum and facilities. Graduate work is an offshoot of that. With graduate work, you need to do extraordinary things with limited resources. Distance or not, much of the graduate work is independent study. That's what makes it distance learning possible.

ChemE, M.E. EIT
"The only constant in life is change." -Bruce Lee

 

[zdas04]

aspearin1,
I think you may have the wrong idea about graduate school. In the base ciruculum there is zero hands-on or real-world stuff. No labs at all. The only time you have a chance to touch something engineering-related is during your thesis work if you take that path.

I look back on my 2 years in grad school and can't see a single thing I did that wouldn't have been better done via a quality distance program (you can re-wind a tape to hear a mumbled explaination over and over until it makes sense, live professors get cranky when you hit the re-play button).

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering

http://www.muleshoe-eng.com

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

The Plural of "anecdote" is not "data"

 

[aspearin1]

So far, my curriculum has been hands on and independent study. Less analytical, more practical. But your argument also supports the use of distance learning.

ChemE, M.E. EIT
"The only constant in life is change." -Bruce Lee

 

[Rich2001]

here is a good article for Engineering Times (NSPE)

http://www.nspe.org/etweb/10704diplomamills.asp

 

[tulum]

I realize you should look for an ABET accredited university. However, Master programs (as previously mentioned) have no such accredidation (only their undergraduate counterparts).

All of the courses available from NTU come from universities with ABET accredited undergraduate programs. Hence, the graduate program is up to snuff, apparently.

Is there anyone with experience with NTU?

 

[tulum]

Here is the deal. I did some research and National Technological University (NTU) IS regionally accredited by The Higher Learning Commission and a member of the North Central Association.

I am from Canada so unsure ...this should be enough right?


Regards,
TULUM

 

[CajunCenturion]

NTU is NOT a nationally accredited university. The U of Phoenix is not nationally accredited either, but is regionally accredited, and I think is also a member of the North Central Association.

All of the courses available from NTU come from universities with ABET accredited undergraduate programs.

This is a true statement, but read it very very carefully.

 

[tulum]

CajunCenturion,

Most accreditation activities are handled through regional accreditors. There are several national accreditors (that is, whose jurisdiction is national in scope) but these are limited to specific types of institutions -- for example, bible colleges, allied health schools, private trade and technical schools, private business colleges.

This is straight from the horses mouth, i.e. The Higher Learning Commission

 

[pmkPE]

What is the Return On Investment (ROI) for additional education?

A collge education should should result in the gradutes being equipped to use the "tools" they had l/earned (that is not a typo). i.e. how to solve problems that they have never seen before. If your education was valuable you should be able to research and study on your own to solve the problems that your clients need you to solve. Granted a masters and/or a doctorate has its advantages but just like an MBA they are only worth while if you really need them for something in particular. (unless of course you want to attend for the "joy of it").

Example: I have reviewed on-line masters degrees from two schools recently for a masters in structural engineering. They cost between $18,000 and $26,000. Not to mention the tremendous anount of time involved in doing the work. Lets say a minimum of 10 hours per week times a minimum of 40 weeks per year times two years. What is your time worth? At ten dollars an hour, this would equate to an additional $8,000 per degree. ( I can do side jobs for a considerably greater value that $10/hr.) So the minimum total amount would be around $25,000 +/-. If you are married with a family that is quite a bit of time to be off on your own. So in two years you have invested $25,000. What kind of raise could you expect going from a BS to a MS? Based on the surveys that I have seen from both the ASCE and NSPE the difference with similar years experience is only a few thousand dollars. A very optimistic differential is $5000 (tops). Therefore after spending two additional years, plus $25,000 it would take an additional five years to break even, not counting compound interest on the loans that were taken out or the money invested in the additional degree.

Now what about studing for the SE exam(s) without having a MS. If you do structural engineering for a living, are reasonably competent and are dilligent you can pass the exam by only spending a few hundren dollars for reference material, and perhaps 200 hours in study time versus at least 800 hours for a masters. I believe having an SE registration in addition to a PE would be more worthwhile resulting in a shorter time period for your ROI and probably result in the same if not better compensation. Once you have your batchelors and your PE registration and again are reasonabbly competent, there is not that much incentive to go for the formal (big business) education.

Also, forums such as Eng-Tips give us all a very wide education from our colleagues.

 

[tulum]

Pmkpe,

I see what you are saying, and yes, I have thought of the ROI as well. However...

1. my company is willing to pay for the education;
2. When I take MS courses I find it opens my eyes to many areas of engineering I am not exposed to on the job, i.e. professional breadth
3. Will it eventually pay me more?.. not really that much, however, it will definetly get me through the door on more positions.
4. In 10 years, whether we like it or not, the field will be saturated with Msc's and P.H.D's...and sad to say many will be the supervisors of their Bsc conterparts.

Regards,
TULUM