Winding configuration question 1

[flexoprinting]

Hello Folks

We let the smoke out of a 230V Drive cooling fan motor, one leg is neutral the other 230VAC for a Heidelberg printing press . Sent it out for rewinding and it came back looking really nice however when I energized it, no joy! It just hummed and I felt resistance while nudging it in either direction, it behaves like the fields are working against each other, otherwise while not energized manually it spins real nice. Should we have made ourselves more clear about it being a European motor? Could they possibly have wound it differently assuming it was a NEC application where the two legs are hot and this might require a different winding configuration then one leg hot?

Chuck

 

[RedSnake]

Sounds like it
most Europe N/Fas 230V AC 50 Hz,
US N/Fas 120V AC 60 Hz

Did it not say that on the motor plate?

/A

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[waross]

Single phase or three phase motor?
Single phase or three phase supply?
Is there a Variable Frequency Drive involved?
Motor Horsepower?
Can you give us a picture of the motor nameplate? (Use the Image icon to upload a picture.)

Bill
--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

 

[edison123]

Looks like single phase capacitor motor with failed capacitor?

Muthu

http://www.edison.co.in

 

[IRstuff]

True story -- we bought a custom 3-phase motor from a small shop for a project and couldn't get it to run, so we decided to check the phasing against the color-coded drawing that they were supposedly built to. AHA, they ignored the color coding and it resulting in the incorrect phasing. OK, no biggie, right? BUT, it turned out that all THREE motors had different color codings on the phases.

Of course, it could be the capacitor was also freed of some smoke ;-)

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

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[dArsonval]

So far, there is not enough information about the type/kind of motor.

In haphazardly answering the OP's questions without knowing the above, here are some answers:

Should we have made ourselves more clear about it [the motor] being a European motor?

Answer:

The motor's origin has nothing to do with the rewinding of the motor.

A motor winder relies upon what they find in the slots for their rewind project.
The country of origin has no factor attributed to it's repair.

Could they possibly have wound it differently...?

Answer:

Yes.

(But did they?)
The audience here will never know.

But here's another "but".

In this 21st century of everything under a microscope, what motor repair shop would repair a motor and not test run it before
releasing it to the customer?

John

 

[flexoprinting]

Hello Gents,

Single phase, no vfd, no capacitor, no data for HP attached is pic of data plate the portion shown is for cooling fan motor.

Chuck

 

[dArsonval]

Okay.

Which motor is within the scope of the discussion?

The motor pictured with the clean fan blade, or the motor shown with an aluminum stator housing?

John

 

[waross]

I'll put in a vote for the rotor being off axial center with the stator.
That may cause a loss of torque and an end thrust that nay be causing some binding.
This may be a shaded pole motor and not have much starting torque at the best of times.

Bill
--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

 

[edison123]

Shaded pole motor with missing shading ring? Did you try turning the rotor CW/ACW by hand when power is applied?

Muthu

http://www.edison.co.in

 

[waross]

CW/ACW, Clock Wise or Anti Clock Wise.
On this side of the big water CW/CCW, Clock Wise or Counter Clock Wise is often used.

Bill
--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

 

[zlatkodo]

I can't see how many leads come out from the motor and how they are connected to a single-phase network (or two-phase)?
The motor plate states that the motor is three-phase. What about that?

 

[RedSnake]

Yes three phases 230 VAC 50 Hz and a break 24 V ?? and a encoder

/A

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[edison123]

There are two nameplates. One on the left is for the 3-ph main motor 550 V (?) 1500 to 6000 RPM run by VFD with an encoder and hence the need for an external cooling fan driven by its own single phase motor, whose nameplate (220 V, 0.6 A etc.) is on the right. OP in his first post mentioned it's the cooling fan motor he has problem with.

Muthu

http://www.edison.co.in

 

[RedSnake]

The plate isn't fully visible.

The right side of the plate it says
Motor 3 ~ phase
(Lufter) Fan, 230 V, 0,6 A, 50 Hz
(Breamse) Break, 24 V ??, 1,4 A, 40 Nm

There is nothing indicating on the plate that it is 1 phase.

/A

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[edison123]

Don't printing presses have brakes?

3-ph shown is for the main motor driven by VFD.

Going by two black supply wires, the cooling fan is single phase.

That's all I got.

Muthu

http://www.edison.co.in

 

[RedSnake]

Not sure if what can be seen on the picture is two cables or three.
If the orange arrow also is a cable.
But OP sade it was two, but without a capacitor it wouldn't work, but maybe it is placed inside the fan motor so it can't be seen?

/A

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[waross]

By this point the best advice we can give you is to hire an expert or get someone from the motor hop to come out and check the motor.
And, by the way, a 50 Hz fan running on 60 Hz may be expected to fail sooner or later.
If the motor is oversized for the fan at 50 Hz, then it may be acceptable.


Bill
--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

 

[flexoprinting]

Hello Gents

Redsnake, there is a three lead set for supply but one wire not used (not my design) good observation though. Edison, this particular Drive pulls paper off of a web roll so while motor is idle the brake keeps tension on paper. Bill, I have installed a lot of motors this should have been plug and play,we are sending it back to shop.

Chuck

 

[RedSnake]

If that picture is from after the rewinding, maybe that is where the capacitor was suppose to go.
Have a hard time seeing how they could have missed it though.

Gents and girls. ;-)

/A

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein