Young engineer confused about career track 4

[huskybuilder]

This is my first post but this looks like a great forum. I loved the Junior Engineer Woes thread and I guess I have a little spinoff of my own. I have been out of college a little over a year now and am still at my first job. I got hired as a "staff engineer", but have been primarily given construction engineering duties. At least that's what I call it. I'm basically an inspector...

I'm definitely not happy with how I've been pigeonholed, as I've gotten NO relevant design experience. The construction knowledge I've gained has been valuable I guess, but at this point, I'm getting worried that I'm on a track I don't want to be on.

I went to a pretty good school, at least in my region, got good grades, but didn't make a lot of special connections or do anything special with civil engineering related clubs or competitions. I'm worried this company is kind of getting me off track for getting into a large company with interesting projects to work on because it is a smallish (40 people) regional firm. The work is very bread and butter - urban street reconstructions, other municipal work, some highway design and dam rehabilitation, etc.

An important thing to note is I LOVED my classwork in college. It was really stimulating work and I felt like I had a lot of interesting things in my future, but I don't know that I've really applied any 'engineering' to the work I've been doing. It's been a lot of project management, actually. The work just feels so asinine... hearing local residents complain all day, fighting with rogue contractors, trying to build off of plans drafted by lazy designers that aren't properly reviewed...

Sorry this is getting long winded, but what do I do? I would like to go to grad school for hydrology/hydraulics related work but am worried about being able to find a job if I'm so specialized. I'm also worried about finding a job with the experience I have right now that is not design related. I'm really worried that "if I don't use it I'll lose it" when it comes to my college education.

 

[racookpe1978]

Ah, but you need to realize: That's where the money is.

At less than 2 years out of college, you're not old enough to be pigeon-holed ANYWHERE yet (unless it's between your ears... 8<)

If you get only "pure design" experience you're really limited. If you have no field experience to help you resolve issues, learn how things are really used, abused and misused, learn what real customers really do compared to what they say they do and what they say they want, if you don't learn how real construction crews actually assemble the stuff so prettily and perfectly designed, how are you ever going to get better?

Sure, I'm prejudiced. After thirty five of various field construction and in-office jobs, I'm back field engineering full time in power plants. And making twice what I did when I was in the office.

 

[rbulsara]

In fact this is a good start. Learning field and practical issues will stand you in very good stead and make you a much better designer as and when you get your chance. Spend about one more year and keep looking for design work. As racookpe1978 said you are not old enough to worry about getting stuck.

People behind the desk and no field experience are among those "terrible" designers.

Rafiq Bulsara

http://www.srengineersct.com

 

[GregLocock]

Agree with the above... but you do need a plan.

Cheers

Greg Locock


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[brandoncdg]

Field work is really important. A lot of people I have worked with and learned from never had field experience. I wouldn't think very much about school stuff at this point. Good school? Who cares. Good grades? Trust me, no one that matters cares. Someone that is willing to learn, work hard and adjust to their environment? Very important.

Just know it takes probably about 3 years to get decent at something. Next job you will most likely try to use what you learned and pursue something related. Eventually you put it all together and become a useful engineer that is notches above those who stay in the same niche for 10+ years when starting out.

Most of the old school guys I worked with are so amazingly well rounded it scares me. I am 31 and have no clue how some of these 55+ guys can know so much.

Civil Development Group, LLC
Los Angeles Civil Engineering specializing in Hillside Grading

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[Ron]

hb...some good advice has been given. I've done both..field and design. I'll reiterate what others have said....the field experience is extremely important for many reasons, not the least of which is the chance to see the implementation of a sterile design.

Stick with it. Learn as much as you can. I still enjoy field work, even after 34 years of experience, constantly switching between the two. I know it has made me a better engineer.

 

[atlengpe]

I worked in field for 8 months making only $12/hour. I loved it because of the co-workers were talkative, friendly, outgoing, etc. etc... After being layed off because of their overhiring (after they spent hours and hours training me) I went to the office with double pay and worked around a bunch of social retards, watched my arse grow, my health deteriorate, and my spine get out of alignment.

Office design is dead. period. The only profitable way for most engineering offices is 1 PE and the rest are EIT's and draftsmen.

1. Engineers can't work with each other. It's a terribly networked profession compared to many. I've been in an alternative profession for the past year and met 50x more people than I met in 4 years of office design work.

2. Working in the field it's best that you realize #1 as soon as possible to help you cope with the social, managerial, and mental inadequacies of office design civil engineers.

 

[DallasJ]

I'd say you're in a great place right now. You're getting to see all the errors in engineering, fabrication, assembly, etc.. Seeing all these will only help later when you are designing and it will definitely help prevent you from creating poor designs.

Engineers rarely seem to stay at their first job more than a couple years anyways so use this experience to learn from others mistakes and make some connections while you're doing it.

 

[msquared48]

To me, in reading your post, you impress me as me as having good communication skills which is a very valuable asset in engineering, although we, as engineers in general, have a reputation to the contrary.

Build on that asset and use it to your benefit. Ask questions and do some study on your own, showing your boss interest in furthering your knowledge.

Quietly look around and see if the company is lacking a certain skill that they need that you might be able to add to your repertoire of professional value.

In short, use what you have now, and learn from the experience opportunities that are provided, construction or otherwise. Ask for more responsibilities, but don't demand. Investigate what you need for your PE experience, and ask for it. It'll come, if not with your present firm, perhaps another.

FYI, I spent several years with a public utility as a glorified drafter and survey rodman, doing little engineering, but gaining a lot of experience, not only in engineering, but in determining where I wanted to go with it. My interests were honed, and, as mentioned above, I developed and implemented a plan.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
Motto: KISS
Motivation: Don't ask

 

[WHEngineer]

To reiterate brandoncdg's point, the fieldwork is very important. When I started 25+ years ago, a rookie engineer could expect to spend his first two years performing essentially field tech work. The next two years integrated the engineer into more relevant design work while still having a hand in the field work. Experience in both the field and office made for a well rounded engineer who not only understood how to design,but also knew how the best office designs may not work in the real world. The field work also forces the typical introverted engineer to work with people and develop contacts they would not have access to if they only worked in the office. Unfortunately, the trend in many firms over the past 15 to 20 years was to dump the rookie engineer right into the design arena to get immediate billings and let training be picked up along the way. A well rounded engineer requires a certain amount of investment by the employer (at least if the employer wants to keep the engineer for longer than a year or two.

 

[KENAT]

I would suggest you do enough 'practice' of some of the more intellectual stuff so you don't forget it though.

I wish I had.

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[trey25624]

Can i trade with you? I would love to go back into the field. sitting in an office sucks.

Not to beat a dead horse, but everyone is right when they say how valuable field experience is. enjoy it. beats being couped up in an office all day. also realize design is not all its cracked up to be. after designing for a few years i can tell you it gets boring and you may be longing for those days when you were out in the field chatting it up with contractors as opposed to being stuck in your four walled cell, i mean cubicle.

I can honestly say the year or so i spent surveying when i was fresh out of school wast the most enjoyable part of my career so far. sad in a way....but i'm looking to get back out there.

 

[huskybuilder]

Great advice everybody. I think rotating through field work and design work is really the ideal solution. Some (not all) of our senior engineers seem very out of touch with what actually happens on the jobsite. I guess I expect the project manager to have a reasonable amount of technical knowledge as a PE in charge of the job, but that doesn't seem to be the case all of the time. They get to be more worried about politics and some other non-engineering related things that I think some important details get overlooked.

One of the things that bothers me about the field work is I'm required to use my personal vehicle, which gets beat up on the jobsite, and is constantly full of junk. I can never really 'escape' my work it seems. One thing that's nice about it is that I'm a perfectionist, which makes me less efficient in an office setting. On the jobsite, things have to keep moving forward and I have to make decisions and live with them.

Regarding my other question about grad school, does anybody have any thoughts about the job market for H&H work? I know with the flood map updates, it seems like a lot of places are hiring for that, but it could be a short term bubble.

 

[sam74]

I started as a rodman out of college for 8 bucks an hour. Got in my survey bosses ear 10 months down the road that I needed some time off to go distribute resumes to other engineering firms. I got moved inside for about 4 months and a raise.

Then I transferred to the inspection department. I had a 45 min to hour drive to the site out in the sticks(something like 50 miles of water line installation). We had to be there at day break when the contractor started and work till almost dark. But they only pulled 40 hours a week so we got part of thurs and all of fri off. It was interesting for a while but the repetitive nature got old. I got in my inspector bosses ear then several times that I was over this. Also totaled my car on the way home one time (thank god for family). Eventually got moved back inside after about 6 months.

I hated all that field experience while I was gaining it. But I was able to go back out in the field to do both afterwards because they were shorthanded and it is an excellent break from office work. It is also invaluable experience that should definitely be of value in your future.

Also don't be scared to speak with your bosses about your concerns and wants/needs. That is the only reason I know of that I was moved back inside to do "real engineering".

I have seen a lot of jobs for H&H from mainly AMEC if you would like to try. I have with no luck. I sometimes wonder if having too much experience makes hiring managers spooked a bit about hiring you for fear of their job security. Any thoughts on that?

 

[huskybuilder]

Are you asking me sam74, or anyone in general? I don't think they would be afraid to hire someone that's 'too good' for the job for fear that they might lose their own if that's what you're asking.

I agree that expressing your goals and interests is important. I've tried to do that to no avail so far...

At least I'm better off than you were in the pay department. I'm making closer to an engineer's wage, but I'm still salaried and expected to work overtime for free. That part irks me.

 

[sam74]

I was asking you or anyone else. I noticed in my early years in the office when the internet was just becoming more popular. The company I was with was a little behind the times and had been around for almost 50 years. Only selective people originally had access to the internet and there was the "keeper of the knowledge" mentality. A lot of the older guys with more senority had rat holed what they could information-wise through out there careers to maintain job security. Then the internet hit and became available to all and information was widely available and the "keepers of the knowledge" had lost their precious job security. Did anyone else go through this period in the mid to late 90s?

Huskybuilder, I'm sorry I don't mean to hijack your thread.

 

[rbulsara]

sam74:
Please start a new thread. You will get better responses too. Not many will be reading this post.
Thanks

Rafiq Bulsara

http://www.srengineersct.com

 

[TDAA]

Husky, you can also do what I did to make the field more interesting. Use your field experience to make changes to the specs and plans/details.

I do not mean when you get into design, I mean right now. Older engineers tend to get set in their ways, and do not necessarily see where a construct-ability issue may be.

Use your position and neophyte status to ask questions on things that are unclear, and work through them, with the engineer, using a constructive attitude. Offer suggestions based on how you saw things in the field. It often helps egos to pose those in question forms (Would there be an issue with showing XXXX this way?).

As far as hydrology/hydraulics, I do not think you would be to specialized, and I see openings for that now.

 

[beej67]

Stay where you're at for another year to gain experience, then move or go get your masters.

Two years worth of construction inspection experience and project management is more than most designers have, and will make you a better designer and better PE. Those plans you're complaining about may not be constructable because those designers never had to build anything.



Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -

http://www.campbellcivil.com

 

[anominal]

Hi husky;

I spent a year doing inspection (CEI). I wanted to be there for two, but there was an open door to our design office that was threatening to close. The communication skills you can glean from small-talking with blue collar can make you dangerous in a design office...

A better sense for constructability doesn't hurt either

The rotation you're describing is something I'm in the midst of now. And FYI, our most senior structural engineer in the office has more CEI than design years; one of the reasons he's the boss.