Young Engineering Bag Lunch - Topics for Conversation 2

[sticksandtriangles]

Hello fellow eng-tip browsers,

I come to you today asking for topics that you think would be good for younger engineers to know better.

A little background, my company has asked me to lead a young engineer bag lunch forum about every other month with the goal of having an open form of communication and to share tough engineering problems that young engineers are faced with once the guy in charge says analyze this. The goal is to expose young engineers on how to problem solve/solve unique design challenges.

For my first forum, I was going to present on the direct analysis method and do some design examples out of the steel manual worked solutions. The goal here is to show the potential pitfalls of the associated software we have and to show how to properly do a direct analysis method per AISC (P delta affects, reduced AE, notional loads, etc).

Can you think of any other topics that I should add to my list to present on? Is there something that is often difficult for younger engineers to grasp that you like everyone to have a basic understanding of (I'm thinking potentially a forum on diaphragm design and lateral load paths)?

Your thoughts and opinions are welcome!
Thanks,
S&T

 

[rb1957]

I think that's excellent ... to show them the basis behind the tables.

A thought ... is everyone on the same page analytically ? can these guys do FBDs ? solve simple problems ?

After a session or two, ask for their suggestions for future topics.

another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?

 

[Archie264]

I think that's a great idea. And in the same vein you could teach them how to do any of the following by hand:

1. Portal Frame method
2. Moment distribution (i.e. Hardy Cross method)
3. Two way flat slab analysis
4. Retaining wall stability calculations

 

[Shotzie]

You could demonstrate and discuss the verification problems that come with software. Link for the RISA 3D problems.

 

[racookpe1978]

Don't get into the details of each failure, and don't allow the discussion to get inside the details of each failure either, but very briefly identify the structural failures-building failures-dam failures-bridge failures that have occurred recently => Use that as the reason you are taking up their lunchtimes in this part of their young lives.

Make it important that they understand the penalties of not asking questions, of not learning continuously, of making assumptions about earth, rebar, installation mistakes, or just plain stupid errors that should have been caught.

See the Eng-Tips Engineering Failures topics for a list, and the discussions around those failures.

Get them the link so they can read and learn.

 

[SnTMan]

And tell 'em they should just get used to bag lunches

Regards,

Mike

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

 

[cliff234]

Constructability tips for steel-framed buildings
Constructability tips for cast-in-placed concrete buildings
Tips for delegating structural steel connection design
Tips for producing high quality drawings
Tips for improving communication skills for structural engineers
Lessons learned from mistakes made
Kinked connections - things to be aware of (i.e., the Hyatt Regency skywalk hanger connection detail was a kinked connection)
Tips for validating the results of structural engineering software
Strut and tie design of deep concrete beams

 

[sticksandtriangles]

Hey thanks for the link Shotzie, I like that verification you listed for RISA.

I also like racookpe1978's suggestion about covering engineering failures. I would enjoy doing research myself on this. I have rarely seen a failure in the area that I work in and would be interested to know where a majority of these occur (I work in building structural design FYI). Is it from poor analysis models,poor engineer, poor detailing, poor craftsmenship etc.?

 

[Celt83]

I introduced something similar to my firm a couple years ago, called it night school.

I initially got feedback from everyone on what topics they wanted to go over this hit a lot of topics from basic weld design up to Finite Element Analysis. Each month we vote on a topic for the coming month and I assign the topic at hand to one of the staff whether that be our principal or a junior staff member. They get a month to prepare and I found it gives the younger staff some incentive to do some self learning since they will be acting as the night school teacher that month. I found having the staff pick the topic kept people interested in what was being presented rather than just dictate we are going over x this month.

The night school sessions are then a presentation on the topic and a worked example/s that then as a whole company we discuss. For the senior staff members I asked that they purposefully make a common mistake in the presented example calc, for us as a whole to catch and correct in the night school and then in the saved pdf the example is redlined and the common mistake is noted as a red flag. Items like self weight of beams, incorrect d locations in masonry/conc., checking shear and tension for anchors but not the interaction equation.

Along with the voted on topics I get feedback from the senior staff members on topics that are more pressing like using a specific software package, the direct analysis for steel, etc.

We also did a session on error recognition in both software and hand calculations. Going over the common themes of Sum forces equal 0, unbraced length determination in software, quick hand checks to verify computer results, etc.

Open Source Structural Applications:

https://github.com/buddyd16/Structural-Engineering

 

[AndrewS9923]

@sticksandtrianglesb,
If you like the RISA-3D verification problems at Shotzie's Link, here is a link to the current product documentation page. There you will find the verification problems for all the RISA programs.

 

[dhengr]

Sticksandtriangles:
They can bring daily work problems for brain storming, as long as someone keeps the discussion on track. Maybe pre-submit these so you and a couple others have some time to prep. for the discussion with sufficient detail. Maybe have one or two experienced engineers in attendance for a little experienced (grown-up) input when things stall or start to stray. Several sessions on things like free hand sketching, free body diagrams, and problem development in the real world. Maybe some discussion of longhand, first shot, without CAD and big software, development of a problem to start to understand a basic approach to its solution. Otherwise, how would you even know how to model it in the big software? Just look here on E-Tips for what needs practice and work by young engineers, what kinds of questions are they asking, over and over. Alternatively, look at what provokes the harshest reaction from the long time experienced engineers here who are willingly giving of their time to help. Many young engineers seem not to know how to begin to approach the problem development. Despite the fact that you have CAD and analysis/design software most young engineers can’t draw a meaningful sketch even if their life depends on it. They just can’t seem to describe an engineering problem so another engineer can understand what they really need, or what the actual problem really is. They can’t imagine that we can’t see it from a thousand miles away, and may not have the benefit of the drawing in front of them. Textbook problems give very little problem info., that needed to solve and understand one particular subject issue, which is being studied at that moment. Real world problems are seldom like that, that easy. You have to ask yourself what info. is needed for a solution, and where do I find it? Now, show it in a well proportioned sketch, with dimensions, loads, approx. member sizes, notes on any constraints, etc. etc., the info. needed to define and solve the problem. You would be surprised at how enough info. and a well proportioned sketch influences an experienced engineer’s first impression, and his tack toward a solution. i.e., don’t show a long slender cantilever beam as if it were a corbeled bracket, and visa-versa; even though they are both basically cantilevers, their design solutions are very different, and it shouldn’t take us an hour to get to that point. Learn to use simple, basic engineering fundamentals to start to hone in on the problem, get a feel for its size, how it acts and deforms structurally, so you can formulate an approach to its solution.

 

[bridgebuster]

In the group I work in we have a monthly program in which a junior engineer makes a presentation on the project they're working on. Lessons Learned can also be very beneficial, on every project there are things that were done well, things that weren't done well, and things that could have been done better. From experience, the key to a lessons learned discussion is to keep it positive; don't turn it into a witch hunt.

As an aside, about three years ago someone in the office did a "lessons learned" that created a lot of animosity; some people quit; others stopped talking to each other; all because some @$$#0!# wanted to make himself look good in front of the bosses.

 

[SlideRuleEra]

bridgebuster's post reminded me of a series of courses in college.

Each class had an instructor and about a dozen students.

On a rotating basis, one student taught the assigned lesson for that day.

The courses had two purposes:
1. Teach the assigned material to the group. (The presenter for the day probably learned the most on that day's subject.)
2. Students learn how to prepare and get experience in presenting an oral presentation.

Looking back, the material taught was informative and worthwhile. Presentation prep and delivery experience... invaluable.

http://www.SlideRuleEra.net

http://www.VacuumTubeEra.net

 

[drawoh]

This has come up in another forum.

thread784-434898

--
JHG

 

[drawoh]

...

As an aside, about three years ago someone in the office did a "lessons learned" that created a lot of animosity; some people quit; others stopped talking to each other; all because some @$$#0!# wanted to make himself look good in front of the bosses.

The company I am at now holds monthly professional development meetings, and also documents a lot of stuff like this separately. There is a whole shared file system full of Lessons-Learned documents. There seems to be a lack of assholes here. This may be the secret of good, professional communications. This never would happen at the last place I was at.

--
JHG

 

[Shotzie]

Another thought is to teach everyone about span to depth ratios, rules of thumb for typical capacities, slenderness limits for columns and walls, etc. These quick rules of thumb could save a lot of headache when starting a design, meaning that the young engineers would have an idea of what size to expect. This would also help in client meetings or while inspecting existing structures.

 

[Teguci]

usually the master is the older engineer and the apprentice is the younger engineer. Why would a company want an apprentice to teach another apprentice? Teach other engineers math problems over lunch? - no. I'd lean more to:
- highlighting problems and solutions to recent projects with lots of pictures.
- dealing with "old" engineers that think its appropriate to pawn off their responsibility on younger engineers.
- the review of historical structural failures (ACI used to have a very nice publication on this)
- interrogation techniques when dealing with other professionals (Architects, Geotechs, etc...)
- illustrate the ins and outs of a structural system - Precast, post tension, deep foundations... and relevant resources - codes, guides, Lisa in the corner who's designed 3 of them, etc...

And, with all of these things, lots of pictures

 

[Archie264]

Many people know the old saw, “Those who can’t do, teach.” Well, there might be a corollary, “Those who can’t teach, do.” In other words, teaching is a skill unto itself. So it might be rare that the best designers are able to communicate what they do in an engaging manner. Just something to keep in mind if those lunch sessions seem tedious.

 

[bridgebuster]

drawoh - I'm not looking to hijack this post but the "lessons learned" incident I cited was all about power. It was the most unprofessional episode I witnessed in nearly 40 years in the business. Perhaps I'll write about it in the ethics forum one day.

 

[cliff234]

Teguci - you noted a possible topic being "dealing with "old" engineers that think its appropriate to pawn off their responsibility on younger engineers". I'm not sure what prompted you to write that, but isn't that known as "delegating". I suppose it depends on what sort of responsibilities they are "pawning off". If they are asking young engineers to sign and seal drawings for which the "old" engineers are responsible, then I agree with you. We all view reality through our mental filters - and this one got caught in my "old guy" mental filter!