Young people replacing old workers in Electrical Engineering? 10

[giasis]

I live in Canada, and I am currently in Engineering Physics major with Electircal Engineering option. These days, I am trying to find a specific area of field for my career after graduation. I am trying to stay in Canada if possible.

One of my questions is, since the technology changes so fast especially in computer and electrical engineering field, is there a tendency that old people(+45) who are working in electrical engienering tend to be replaced with young people who just learned new technology and are more flexible to learn new stuff, eariler than the people in mechanical engineering? For me, it kind of makes sense since the knowledge the old people got at school would be obsolete as time goes by. And also, as people get old, it might be harder for them to keep up with the new technologies than young people.

But then, I also think, since the old people have seen the history of changing technology at work, they may have more insight about what they are doing and those can be a benefit over the young people?? I want to hear from Electrical engineers that if this kind of early shift to the young worker really happens in certain field of electical engineering job. And what kind of area in electical engineering is more prone to have that kind of shifting.


I appreciate all your replies in advance.

 

[TheTick]

There is a tendency for unmotivated people to not keep learning new things as they age. They are replaced by younger unmotivated people whose learning ended more recently.

 

[cranky108]

The sad thing is the young people just out of college think they know it all, and few understand there learning so far is years behind the cutting edge.

The worst thing is that most electrical graduates don't have the skills of the retiring engineers. Which is why we are rehireing the retired, and not hiring the newly graduated.

 

[moltenmetal]

You're confused about the difference between knowledge and wisdom. The former transforms into the latter as one gathers experience.

Young people may have knowledge but lack wisdom. Old people may have wisdom but may lack current knowledge. To truly succeed, they must work together. There's something in it for both to do so.

One wisened old b*stard can provide wisdom to many knowledgeable young people. So, in a properly functioning organization, you need fewer of the former and more of the latter. That means the older folks have to actually retire, or move on, and the firm has to hire young people. This has to happen continuously, or else the wisdom is lost.

Over the past 20+ years, many industries have failed to understand the need for proper succession planning. They didn't hire young and train because they could draw on experienced people from a flooded labour pool whenever they needed help. Labour market-addicted organizations can only function effectively with a crew of old folks. That's just great- until the older ones retire. Then these businesses scream about a "labour shortage"- but there is no way to save them.

 

[calguy07]

Cranky,

First of all, young people out of college do NOT think they know it all. Please do not label all of us as such (not so much me, as I'm 4 yrs into electrical now). In my time, I've yet to see someone question authority, or a decision thats been made or to even suggest they might have a better way of doing something.

The second thing you hit on IS the truth though. I'm in electical power and I see it everyday. I think there exists an excellent opportunity to establish continuity between generations that is being blown in the worst possible way. There's no excuse to be "re-hiring the retired" when universities graduate THOUSANDS of engineers semester after semester, year after year. The failure is on the part of both the companies and of the industry. There should be several things in place to help the progression of young engineers but there really isn't. Perhaps some of the older people should quit being "keepers of the knowledge". This is my experience..might be different elsewhere.

 

[cranky108]

Power is a good field, however most electricals don't go into power. I did years ago, and I haven't regretted it.

The problem seems to be the mismatch in universitys offering power, and the locations that one can start a new job. Around the universitys there may not be power jobs, but else where to is.

We have tried hiring electricals without the power option, and the training needed to understand parts of power seems to take a long time.

 

[calguy07]

Cranky,

I definitely agree that the training to understand the principles take a long time. I'm 4 yrs in and while I've learned a lot, I still consider myself quite clueless. I also think the power program at my school fell way short in preparing me.

Its been frustrating for me because I've always been a self taught/self learning type of person and this shows up in EVERY other thing I involve myself in but for some reason its hard to me to use that ability to progress in power because I haven't been able to find a resource to help with the process at all.

Having said that, I still think power is the best field to get into for electrical for now and the future.

 

[giasis]

Thank you very much for all your replies. But I think my question was a bit misleading. What I wanted to hear was, compared to the Mechanical engineering, if there is more tendency that young people are replacing older workers because the technology changes so fast in electrical engineering. And I think I should've said I am not very interested in Power related field. If power field is excluded from the list, is that gonna be much more this kind of tendency in electrical engineering compared to mechanical?

 

[MikeHalloran]

If you expect steady employment for life, you might as well switch to chiropractor school now.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[GregTirevold]

giasis,

The term you should use to do your Google searches is "greyed out" or "gray" if you spelling preference leans that way. You will find lots of information about what industries are facing that problem and how they are dealing it.

My take on your question is this:

You are not going to find a huge difference in how Electrical or Mechanical areas handle the issue. The reason is older workers have INDUSTRY knowledge that is simply not available in school. While a new graduate may possess fresh ideas and perspective they are, by and large, clueless as to how to actually produce a complete product that can be sold.

This video clip from a Rodney Dangerfield movie is about business, not engineering, but the idea is pretty accurate in the context of older vs younger engineers discussion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlVDGmjz7eM

http://www.linkedin.com/in/gregtirevold

 

[cranky108]

The problem with the power side is that the good text books are all out of print, with a few exceptions. And you may overlook them because the concepts look old, but they still apply.

The biggest change recently (last 30 years) is the introduction of microprocessor relays. This also started a new class of engineers that must understand power, and logic, or programming.

 

[vpl]

giasis

It might be surprising to hear this, but people over 40 can still go back to school and learn new things. They can also go to training courses and learn on the job as they solve a current problem. They might even participate in forums like this. Just because you graduate from school, don't believe your education is over.

While there is sometimes a pointy haired boss who will decide he can fire an older employee and replace him with two younger employees "and still save money!!" in general, good businesses keep productive people, no matter their age. And if your business model is that 45 year olds get booted out to make room for new graduates, keep that in mind as you'll find you will get to 45 sooner than you think.

Patricia Lougheed

******

Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of the Eng-Tips Forums.

 

[Comcokid]

giasis
One of the big things you learn getting a degree at a school is you 'learn how to learn', and how to solve problems that you initially know nothing about. You also pickup discipline in learning (or maybe school is a filter that removes those without discipline from the ranks). After that, a career becomes a lifetime of learning, and experience gives you wisdom - something that cannot be taught.

Yes, technology keeps changing, but the nature of materials and the laws of physics don't. Years ago, I made a decision not to have my career become too tied to a particular product/technology (remember bubble memories?). Instead, you should become knowledgeable in an area more fundamental and tied to the basic underlying science - like RF, Analog, magnetics where your experience is directly related to the use and manipulation of the materials or physics involved.

I've been at it 32 years now and have worked at a number of companies. Funny thing though - past employers that valued knowledge and experience are still around while those that that only looked at how much a "warm body" costs are gone.

I would say staying in engineering into your 40's or 50's is more of a problem for electrical engineers than mechanical engineers, but even mechanical engineers who are in it for the long haul need to keep their careers defined close to the fundamentals rather than tied to a passing man-made technology/product - that is define themselves as a "materials engineer specilizing in plastic" rather than solely as a "SolidWorks 3D designer"

 

[controlnovice]

old people(+45)

Over 45 is OLD??? You're kidding, right?

While some of us "old" people try to keep up with technology, many companies have cutback on education and training budgets and no longer send their employees out to maintain or grow their knowledge.

There is also the issue of finding time. With fewer employees, the existing employees are swamped, and continuing education gets pushed to the back-burner.

My last manager made me take a vacation day for a 1 day FREE class a local vendor was offering. I no longer work for them....by choice.

______________________________________________________________________________
This is normally the space where people post something insightful.

 

[davefitz]

In my opinion, when starting out, the key word is "flexibility"- if you are able to move to field sites or other locations, you open up a lot of employment opportunities not available to those stuck in place.

The combination of computer + EE would suggest controls system engineering would be an excellent long term niche- thre will always be a need for controls engineers to installl and update controls systems , and the continuous progression of technology and implemented theory seems to be most obvious in that area.

 

[LSpark]

I'm in the UK and the main time I see a clear out of the older engieners is when we have a redundancy round. Then there is an attempt at knowledge transfer to the mid level/grduate engineers.

There is a lot of older power stations left which a lot of the graduate engineers (not all thank goodness) appear unwilling to want to take on work from as they prefer the new builds. On the flip side most of our older engineers have a very good understanding of the basic priciples which enables them to keep up with progress.

 

[cranky108]

AHH, that thing called Progress. It isen't all forward, unfortunituly. And it tends to leaves little pockets of older technology behind, of which we seem to not be able to do without.

The worst of it seems to be plastic molding, which is only made for a few years, then when it crumbles, you can't replace it.

The other thing is older software, which won't run on newer machines. Like database software which contains recouds that are seemly to laborus to retype into the replacment software.

 

[zzzjim]

Competition comes in many forms ,open un-selfish sharing of our wisdom sometimes gets us replaced
by a piece of Software !

( with no common sense )

Who knows where accountants & cost cutting will get us .

 

[cranky108]

Can't we replace accountants with Software? Or have they done that to an extent with Quicken, and Turbotax.

 

[davefitz]

cranky108:

"don't ask for whom the bell tolls, for it tolls for thee."

In this so-called post capitalist world, all knowledge- based jobs are susceptible to outsourcing or replacement by a piece of software.